The ProLife Team Podcast
Content for ProLife Leaders from ProLife Leaders
The ProLife Team Podcast
#196 | Beth Caulfield | Pastor Turns Unplanned Pregnancy into Pro-Life Film
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Jacob Barr with ProLife Ribbon and iRapture.com
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In this episode of the Prolife Team Podcast, host Jacob chats with Reverend Beth Caulfield about her inspiring journey from an unexpected pregnancy in her 40s to creating the faith-based movie "Conceivable."
Transcript
0:32
The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not be in want.
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He makes me lie down in green. He leaves me by quiet blue.
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Yeah. The walk through darkness valleys. You need your protection and guidance
0:55
are comforting me every day that I know.
1:01
Oh. Oh.
1:08
Oh
1:17
me in the presence of my enemies in front of my accusers. You're enjoying
1:22
me. You and my desire and my overflowing mercy beauty and your love are chasing
1:29
after me everywhere that I go.
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Every day of my life. Everywhere I go.
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Every day of my life.
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You refresh and restore my soul.
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You lead me in righteous pathways for your name's sake alone.
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You've invited me to make your house my own.
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I'll do no evil for you are with me everywhere
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I go.
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Oh,
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it's got to be easy for me in the presence of my enemies in front of my accusers. You're enjoying me. You and
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all I had is overflowing. Beauty I love chasing
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after me. Everywhere I go.
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Every day of my life. Everywhere
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I go. Every day. Everywhere we go.
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Every day of my life, let's pray where we go. Every day of my life.
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Welcome to the Prolife Team podcast. I'm Jacob and I'm here with Beth and we're going to learn about a new prolife
3:54
movie. Beth, would you introduce yourself um for myself and others who
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may not know you as of yet? Absolutely. Um first of all, Jacob, I want to say uh that I am excited to be
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on the podcast. I'm really grateful for the work that you're doing and the audience that you connect with. uh and
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uh when uh you know I had this opportunity I said it's it's actually perfect timing in a way. Um so I am
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Reverend Beth Caulfield. I'm a pastor turned filmmaker. I am ordained in the
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global Methodist church and we are very pro-life and I am um uh commissioned or
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ordained uh into uh or appointed to a ministry of film making. And my first
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feature faith-based is uh called Conceivable. and it'll be out next year
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in theaters and and other places. And I am right now uh doing pre-release
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showings of it with pregnancy centers and other pro-life organizations and
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churches uh as we ramp up and get ready for marketing the film. So, I am someone
5:16
who has been involved in the pro-life movement uh personally through my own
5:22
personal experience, which I love to share with you about and how all this has come into making a movie and God's
5:29
involvement in that. Wow. H this is exciting. Um so, so tell
5:35
us tell us a little bit more about Conceivable. Tell us where the name came from. maybe tell us um how things got
5:41
started or maybe about the you know the you know the idea or the goals that you
5:47
might have had making this movie something. Yeah, tell us more. Absolutely. Well, I think I should
5:52
should back up and tell you that uh so in a few years ago uh when uh I was um
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very involved in uh lay people ministry, I was teaching Bible studies. I was uh
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teaching studies in prisons and so forth. Uh I had a call on me to go to
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seminary and uh I had my kids were getting older and I started recognizing
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that this was uh you know something that I could do as as my kids were getting uh
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getting ready to leave the nest and um had a full ride to seminary and was one
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year into it and this was in my 40s, right? And uh one year into it found out
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I was pregnant. That was not my plan. Uh
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and it was very uh challenging when I went through the experience of of course
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the shock and and surprise and all that women go through. Uh but then what I
6:57
found was the journey for older women uh and even women of faith of of navigating
7:04
an unplanned pregnancy both with within the church as well as uh with the
7:11
medical community and uh I won't give away all the story of the movie but it
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is based on my story um when this originally happened with me uh a couple
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couple of years into it when my daughter is, spoiler alert, I have a beautiful daughter, um who is one of three and and
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she is uh 13 years younger than my others. Uh she um uh when she was about
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two, uh I recognized that it was time to uh start talking about what I had
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encountered. And so I wrote articles and my first one was for Celebrate Life
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magazine. It's by the American Life League and I just shared about my
8:00
experience and some of the the myths that needed to be dispelled uh as well
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as uh to encourage people. Uh I also then um was asked to write for a number
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of magazines about it and at that time thought about maybe I need to write a
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book not thinking of it as a a book so much of telling my story but a book of
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uh encouragement and facing some of the the myths and so forth out there. um
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couldn't get the book together to with a publisher. And at that point, I was back
8:38
in seminary and busy and so forth. And so just kind of let it go, you know, and
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went on uh with my call uh to to uh join the church and and pastor church and and
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so forth. And uh was very involved in a vibrant um ordained ministry and still
8:59
am. Um but uh in um in the last couple
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of years I've moved into film making and I did write another book before this and
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that's called People Throw Rocks at Things That Shine: A Clergy Whistleblowers
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Tale. It's about my joys and uh as well as challenges uh that you encounter in
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ministry especially uh within the realm of being a more traditional pastor in a
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more progressive denomination and and that's where I had originally started
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out my ministry in uh the United Methodist Church. I'm now in the global Methodist church. I was one of the
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leaders in finding that in founding that. Whole lot of backstory there. Um
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but uh once we became global Methodists um I felt in my heart that it was time
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to write the story of um of my pregnancy and uh and in my mind I was thinking
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about a book but I just had trouble getting the story
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out in that way. And instead uh what I started recognizing was this was a
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script. this was a movie and I I went back and uh took some screenwriting
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courses and um wrote the story and um and there's a lot of ministry involved
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behind the scenes in in what I'm about to tell you, but wrote the story, won a a faith-based contest for the story, uh
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met a studio head, um very quickly have put this um movie together and and it's
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been just God's fingerprints all over it uh in terms of how just things have
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lined up. And so we've completed the movie and are um about to distribute it
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as I said next year uh in theaters but are doing some pre-release stories uh
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showings. It is um called conceivable uh as kind of a double entandra there.
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It's conceivable for a woman in her 40s to be conceivable
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and uh that is one of the first uh myths that that I want to um you know deal
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with. There is such an overplay of the message today about infertility. Uh you
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know we hear a lot of stories of many women are choosing to have children later in life waiting uh and then we
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hear a lot of stories about fertility challenges. Well my story uh is one of
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many that kind of blows that out of the water um in that uh I was not going
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through any kind of fertility treatment or anything like that. God found it as the the right timing for me to have my
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third child. Um the other piece that uh came through um in my story uh is the
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just the variety of advice that I got out there um from well-meaning friends
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Christian and non-Christian as well as leaders within the church including my
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own pastor and that vi advice was some of it pro-life and some of it Beth you have a
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choice and uh and that was surpris surprising to me. It was also um
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confusing and difficult at a time when you're in shock. Um it's uh scary when
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you have uh uh medical advice uh that nudges you toward or abortion and and I
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and I show that very clearly in the movie uh with our team uh and uh and at
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the same time having uh Christian leaders uh say the same thing. You know,
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you have a choice. Um, all that's happening while, you know, your hormones are going wild. Um, you're, as I said,
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you're in shock. Uh, you're thinking about, gosh, this wasn't my plan. How am I going to
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afford this? I'm about to pay for college. We'll never retire. What if this child does have problems? um all
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those things with that push that well if you're going to abort a child it's
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better to make that decision sooner than later. So all those pressures that are
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out there on women um I wanted it to come to the forefront and that's why I wanted the story um put out there. Um so
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the movie is based on my story. It's it's semi-autobiographical. Um but the the main point is uh that it
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shows uh compassion for women in the situation and it also uh shows that if
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you seek God, he'll make your path straight. And uh and I am very clearly
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showing there those God moments where God was was speaking um to me through
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other people, through through prayer, through many ways. Um making it clear
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that he was with me and he had a plan with this. And uh and the hope is to
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encourage others uh to when they um have really any kind of unplanned event in
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life to seek God and let him make your path straight. And um it um the the
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movie uh is also intended to be a conversation starter. Uh, I've written
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it in a way that, you know, I describe it as uh, it's unplanned
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meets uh, war room in a cheaper by the dozen kind of way.
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So it it's uh the intent is while this is of course you know a heavy subject I
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try to handle it in a a nonheavy way uh that is uh done so that uh it is not um
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uh seen as as judgmental but rather um uh evoking conversation. It's the kind
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of movie that pro-life Christians can feel comfortable bringing uh their
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pro-choice friends, both Christian and non-Christian, too, and have a good conversation. Um, the hope is that it
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not be uh so uncomfortable or uh uh um
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legalistic that it that it, you know, evokes people to just not want to, you know, it's one of those movies. So, uh,
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so that's it. You know, we've got a terrific cast, um, that includes, uh,
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probably the biggest name that people know in there is Dean Kaine. Uh, he plays an OBGYn. Uh, I co-direct it with
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the the star in the movie. Her name is Jana Lee Hamlin. She does a phenomenal
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job. Uh, and then Eddie Mcccleintoch um, plays, you know, the the the dad who
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really pulls through. And that's all I'll say on that. Wow. Yeah, this is very enticing and I'm
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really I'm looking forward to seeing this someday. So, I'm imagining the
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Well, it's sort of it's I mean, it's a bit I'm not sure if I I should say the
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word understandable or normal or expected, but none of those words really fit. But there's certain doctors that
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are okay with promoting abortion. Yeah. and and being the, you know,
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whether it's this variable or the age variable of like above 40, like that's
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something that not not to say that that's it's it's still shocking, but it
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it really just emphasizes the need to have uh a doctor who agrees with someone's values or or um position on
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life, but then the fact that there were pro-life or, you know, Christian leaders
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or Christian, you people in your voices that were speaking
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um on both sides of this, you know, both um promoting life or promoting really
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think about your options. Um boy, that's a that's that's pretty shocking. It makes me think of um the good Samaritan
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story, but instead of someone getting beat up, let's imagine you're on that road and you're you're pregnant and
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you're looking for, you know, you're trying to navigate, you know, your way to that new city and there's a there's a
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you know, someone walks by and it's a religious leader and they're instead of, you know, maybe instead of just ignoring you, they're promoting you to go the
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wrong way. um or just not being helpful, trying to, you know, take that shortcut
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that is dangerous and and violates life. Um and then yeah, but it just makes me
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think of like the different people that were interacting with you and it's very different than the Good Samaritan story,
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but just imagining like that that structure and how you had different people influence with different positive
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messages or or questioning that positive message with a negative or, you know, trying to sew in doubt.
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That's Yeah. Wow. Well, so so that is, you know, one one of the the things that the film brings
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out is about surrounding yourself with with good Christian faithful friends who
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understand um God's word. And uh you know, the the other thing that I I the
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movie um you know brings out is the realities of what research is showing. I
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don't know if you've had anyone on here yet talk about the Pew Research Center.
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um a study that came out just last year uh about people's views on whether any
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and all abortion should be legal or not within the church. And what that showed
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is um just like uh the US adults in general um most people in the church say
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that you know abortion is is something that should be supported. Um the only
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category and you know Again, it's Pew Research 2024 and and and you can look
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that up and we could probably put a link in the show notes, but um there's a a great graphic that shows uh white
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evangelicals are the only group that that is uh against uh free reign
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abortion, right? Uh uh white non-eangelical Protestants, Catholics,
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black Protestants, so forth hugely flipped are for it. And so that's just
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Christians in general, but we need to be tailoring and recognizing that that is
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the world that we are in in the church. And then another survey um that was done
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by George Bara um and I believe this one's 2022 um points out that only 37% of Christian
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pastors in the United States hold a biblical worldview. Right? And that's hard to understand
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that um but um by a biblical um you know he lays out what a biblical worldview is
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but involves being believe in absolute moral grounded truth and the that's focused on what the Bible teaches us uh
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and uh you know he goes for goes for it gives more info on that but he shows
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that in that survey even only half of evangelical ical pastors possess what he
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calls a biblical worldview and that's that's a reputable survey of course. So
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I bring um a uh a lens to that by just showing the
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story right and uh and I hope that it will lead to more work within the church
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uh to uh really you know address this pastor. What do you say? I know you're in a difficult position, right? Pastors
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have very difficult jobs and uh as many pro-life workers know who try to
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interact with a church, especially in the pregnancy centers or um that um it
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it's it can be difficult. not necessarily because the pastor isn't supportive of their work, um but rather
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that they're just don't want to um they don't want to rock the boat. And uh I I
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am hoping that this uh movie opens up more conversations on how do we reach
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the pastors? And you know, I think there's a number of of great resources that are beginning to be put together
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out there. I love uh Love Life's House of Refuge uh work where they I don't
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know if you've had them on here, but Yeah, we have. Yeah, they're Yeah, they they're doing some great
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work. I'd love to see more of that. You know, Rand Warren's book about uh the
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alternative to abortion. Uh he he does some great sound theological work in
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that um that can be helpful for bolstering um pastors. You know, it's um
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pastors face a lot of pressures not only from within their congregation but
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especially if they're in more progressive denominations from the denomination itself.
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Um you know I I give an example of the denomination that I came out of uh the
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United Methodist Church that I left for the global Methodist church the more traditional one. um at their general
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conference um uh last year uh they passed a petition uh affirming a right
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to abortion and and uh and it passed the floor. Now when they uh went to uh
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revise their social principles, they tweaked it and it still is less
23:16
supportive of abortion, but it came that close. And that is um you know uh in my
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belief an alarm that people who are involved in their churches need to know
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what's going on. Uh so while the book doesn't go into those or the movie
23:35
doesn't go into those details uh it does show that hey we need to think about
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this. This is another area for us to to do more work on.
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Wow. Yeah. And so in the word abortion, sometimes people will include subtopics
23:55
into it and then some people don't include certain subtopics into it. So like if I said the word milk, you know,
24:02
it probably would include 2% whole milk, skim milk, fat-free milk, but it may or may not include the dairyfree almond
24:08
milk, you know, I don't know. But but so when I say the word abortion, so like when you're saying the you know the
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group that was you know saying abortion, I guess the question is is did they
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detail out what was included and what was not included? Because that's a it's abortion is almost like the word milk
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when it comes. There's a lot of there's a lot of things underneath it like for example um medical surgical abortions of
24:35
course but then there's also ectopic pregnancies where sometimes the life of
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the child is ended before it ends naturally in order to not have a
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ruptured fallopian tube. And personally, I think that is wise to do. And I know
24:55
that not everyone agrees with with me on that, but I think that that is smart to
25:01
preserve the life of the mother. Um, and and I'm wondering if that was included
25:06
or not included, and that might have created that. I'm not sure what what created the friction, you know, being
25:12
against certain abortions. And then there's always the then there's also the scenarios, the stories like rape and
25:17
incest. Um, and personally I think those are hard those are hard things to think about. But but at the same time I have
25:25
seen the fruit of where God has used the life of a of a gentleman by the name of Stephen who was born out of a case like
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that and he his life is evidence of how precious life is even when it comes from
25:39
very hard beginnings. And so I'm wondering yeah what was included in that word abortion or how do they how do they
25:45
detail it out? Right. Right. and and and the details of of to that level I do not believe were
25:52
included. It was more focused on uh women's reproductive health. You know
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that that language and uh and uh and their right to it. You know what I would
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say is I'm in total agreement with you. I I love some of the work that um APLOG
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uh has been doing, American Association of Pro-life OBGYNS. Yeah. um that uh they have done a good
26:18
job of saying that you know we're really talking about induced abortion and there
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are categories within induced abortion. Ectopic pregnancies are a different thing. Um issues uh of of preserving uh
26:32
a life are a different thing. Um so I um I I I
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believe that the most important thing are these conversations need to happen.
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I think that there can be much more um gained by having an environment where
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people who are on both sides of this can sit down and listen to one another and
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really see where we're talking apples to apples and where we're not. And and I
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think that that's that's part of the problem right now. And that's part of my hope is to provide something that yes,
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I'm not going to deny it's a pro-life movie by any means, but it is something that um raises a lot of the issues that
27:21
that people are either afraid of or misinformed of what other people's views
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are on it. Yeah. I I was doing some research on um
27:32
uh abortion abolitionists and and they were actually opposed to you know the
27:38
the procedure of helping a woman in a topic pregnancy which sort of threw me off. I didn't know that there was a
27:44
group that was um that I don't know it just drew me I I didn't expect that and but but at the
27:51
same time sometimes we all get grouped into the same sort of like you know
27:57
under the word milk or under you know under the word pro-life or under the word against abortion and we have
28:03
there's some groups that are um that are very unique in some of their positions or you know or I would call wrong I
28:10
guess but um and and so yeah, I I would agree a topic pregnancy it does end the
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life of a six-w weekek old um child when
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being removed from the fallopian tube. But at the at the benefit of not having
28:28
a rupture and and saving the life of the mother if it were, you know, if it were to rupture that fallopian tube and it's
28:34
just simply like it's not an abortion because abortion usually means like there's a a chance for the child to live
28:41
and and there's a there's an end that's you know a choice being made to end that life. And so I would yeah I would agree
28:47
with how you how you phrased it, how you said like that's not under abortion. But I'm just wondering like if someone
28:53
included some language like that, it makes it so we have to sort of know what words we're using and what's included
28:58
because some of these some of these words get used different ways by different groups.
29:03
Exactly. Yeah, I you know I I I think um you know I as I said I'm I love what
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applog has put out there but it it hits on you know where so my calling in my
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ministry in this film ministry is to address what I'll call morally complex
29:23
issues. You know, we the reality is um there there are truths in this world,
29:30
but we're also in a fallen world and there are all kinds of ramifications
29:35
from that both, you know, medically in relationally, you know, on and on,
29:41
right? Uh we should not uh and I think we do a disservice to our cause as
29:48
Christians as as well as pro-life advocates. We shouldn't shy away from
29:53
addressing complexities and just saying, "Oh, you know, it's just that's it. It's
29:59
one way." Um, but instead have faith uh in God in engaging in these things and
30:07
encourage uh and and as the movie shows um you know, my character goes on what
30:13
I'll call a a spiritual pilgrimage, right? um where she really really needs
30:19
to hear from God because she's hearing there might be something wrong with her baby. She's hearing, you know, this is
30:25
going to mess up my life. She's hearing a whole bunch of things. Um and she needs to get along with God and and he
30:33
shows up. Wow. So, that really sort of So, I want
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to ask you um what seems to me like a hard question, but it may not be hard to you. So, and based on what you just
30:46
said, I feel like there's a lot of um uh um a lot of parallels here. So in the
30:53
story of Abraham and Isaac when Abraham was asked to sacrifice his son Isaac and
31:01
and um to to test his faith um that's one of the stories in the Bible that I
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see as difficult as someone who's against abortion because you know do I
31:14
do I you know I I I ask myself like do I always follow God or am I or do I have
31:21
this rule And I and what I've come to is that I should always follow God and and and and
31:29
follow his direction from the Bible from from you know the way he speaks, the way
31:36
he communicates. I should follow him. And and and I pull that and and I think
31:43
about the Abraham Isaac situation of trust God and keep following him even if
31:48
what he tells you sometimes is really hard and and so would you based on what
31:54
you just said how you went to you you're following God even through hard times you're getting advice from people who
32:00
seem like they're Christian leaders in your life. Can you sort of, you know, maybe try and
32:07
think about the Abraham Isaac story and your story and sort of just speak about that and how you chose to follow God and
32:14
speak more about that? Yeah. Uh you first of all I I thank you for bringing that up because that is the
32:20
perfect story to bring up for this. Uh and yes, you're right. You know, uh the
32:27
the big lesson that I take out of and many theologians take out of that Abraham Isaac story is are we going to
32:36
um follow God no matter what? Even it no matter what it looks like through man,
32:43
even through our own moral laws, which that's really freaks me out too, right?
32:51
It's hard to grapple with. It's very hard to grapple but I think it brings to
32:56
another point and that is are we about the cause? Are we about following God
33:04
who is behind the cause? Yeah. Right. And and uh and I think that is
33:10
very key and Jacob I don't have to tell you that's a huge issue.
33:16
And uh and and I think that um back to to my story and in the movie itself um
33:23
that's exactly um what happens with someone who is in
33:29
that situation there's so much confusion and I think that's life in general. when
33:34
we all find ourselves in unplanned situations, you know, the the job is lost, you know, whatever it is, um there
33:44
are many paths. Uh and sometimes sometimes it's it can get confusing. Um
33:52
but if you're seeking God with all your heart, you know, through prayer, through through getting with godly friends,
33:58
which I do show some some wonderful people who had some great advice in the movie as well. Um but uh and getting
34:05
along, you know, really um journaling and everything else, he shows up. Will
34:12
the answer necessarily be light bulb easy? No. It's usually a faith
34:20
decision, but you know in your heart that that's where you're being led to. There's nothing wrong with going out and
34:27
getting sound medical advice. That's that should be that's important there.
34:32
Um and and and I'm certainly not um u discouraging people from um from seeking
34:38
out advice from Christian leaders. That is very important too. Um I am um more
34:45
importantly just saying that if you use the resources that God has given you, the Bible, Christian leaders, friends,
34:53
and your own personal relationship with him, he'll make the path straight. When
34:58
I chose, and again, I can't give away the movie, but when I chose Yes. I'm
35:04
just I'm I'm done with testing. I'm Excuse me.
35:11
No worries. I'm done with testing. I'm done with
35:17
doubting. Um I also um you know I I reveal some things that that I found out
35:24
in in the movie. But um when I made that decision in my heart to make that leap
35:32
and I did that with my husband um there was such a release and and you
35:39
know people know that in many decisions that they make when they follow God even
35:45
the first one to just accept him as Lord and Savior. So, um
35:51
that that is uh key to our journey on this and um and and it's my hope that
35:57
this movie be seen more as a journey of faith than anything else.
36:03
Oh, that's so good. So, I'm going to take you on another So, one of the ways I like the way my church will often um
36:11
help us understand what to do in different scenarios is we try and reflect on scripture.
36:18
um based on what we're currently going through and and and trying to you know
36:23
ask questions and trying to really you know almost like a journal a journaling kind of way to understand how scripture
36:30
can apply or at least some scripture can apply to a certain situation. So um
36:35
based on Psalms 23 when you were going through this hard time and you end up
36:41
choosing you went you chose yes how did what were your green pastures? What what was God putting in your path that was
36:49
really delightful and restored your soul? And then what was your still waters as in you had to follow him, but
36:56
it was also very refreshing for your soul? What were your Yeah. What was your green pastures and still waters during
37:02
this time? Oh, that's a great question. And and I and I'm wondering, you must have watched
37:07
the trailer for the movie because there's I have not seen the trailer. There's a powerful scene that is revealed in the
37:14
trailer of her praying the 23rd Psalm
37:19
in a beautiful setting. I would I'd like to see it. I just haven't seen it yet. Lord,
37:24
no, we we you I'll just tell your viewers they can go to our our website
37:29
um which isthemov.com. There's a whole lot of information about it, including the trailer. Um but uh
37:37
yeah and so we filmed she went on a spiritual um u pilgrimage which I actually did uh to France. It was part
37:45
of my seminary work and I was pregnant and I and I went uh and um getting the
37:52
opportunity in in that case I went to some beautiful houses of worship, old
37:58
cathedrals, you know, chartra over a thousand years old, right? Um different
38:04
places of of Christian heritage and having the opportunity to pray and mine
38:10
were desperate prayers at that time. uh and um to I I I walked a labyrinth. I
38:17
had time to journal and I had a powerful friend in my life uh who really
38:24
encouraged me. And then God showed up in an amazing way. And I can't I show it in
38:30
the movie, but I'm not going to I'm not going to tell you, Jacob. Um um but uh
38:36
it was those that was a time of of of
38:42
refreshing especially once I released just released myself to the Lord and and really
38:49
enjoyed um we show um time that I spent in a Christian community called Taz
38:56
which is in um Burgundy, France. absolutely beautiful. They're worshiping
39:02
with people from all over the world, all different denominations. Um that's one
39:07
of the things that I that I love to um expose people to through this movie is is people don't even know places like
39:14
that exist, right? Um but um so so that was my refreshing. I I the the the uh
39:23
challenging times were just uh in the beginning. Um
39:30
I I prayed so much and I show this in the movie when I was scared. Um when I
39:36
was I you know I will share one line in the movie that was true. I I I think I
39:41
let God down. That's how confused I was. I let God down. I'm supposed to be in training for
39:48
pastor and do something else. Now I'm going to be having another kid. I I
39:53
messed up. And those were one of the one of the many lies that that the enemy,
39:58
you know, puts in front of you that are easy to grasp and uh let take hold in
40:04
your life. Oh, that's so good. So, I want to ask you a follow-up question about Psalms
40:10
23. So, with those who were telling you the, you know, essentially promoting
40:15
abortion through maybe soft language like, you know, look at all your options, but yet still opening up that
40:22
space. Um, let's just for, you know, for Psalms 23 language, let's just put them
40:28
into the under the word enemy. I'm not saying that they're your enemy, but I'm just saying like, so in that in the
40:33
passage where it says, um, you know, he prepares a table for you in the presence
40:38
of your enemies, meaning people that were pushing you in the wrong direction in this case. Yes. um how you know what was that like to to
40:47
you know to have those people who were promoting you know other choices and options and maybe not the best not
40:53
encouragement at least and what was it like to for God to take care of you and
40:58
to provide a meal and and while your enemies were looking on in that time.
41:06
What was that like? Well, I I I think that next line in the psalm, he anoints
41:11
my head with oil, right? And and I think that um both my faith in knowing where
41:20
to turn even though I was confused and scared and everything else, but also
41:27
having other voices in my life that spoke, you know, who just were there
41:32
with me. I mean there were um there were friends who you know spent hours on the
41:39
phone with me praying and encouraging me and you know listening to my tears
41:44
listening to my you know disappointment and all those all those things that I'm
41:50
very honest about in the movie you know and I I think that that's an important
41:55
part of of telling a good story is being honest and not making it just sugarcoat
42:02
it. And I think that's um I'm off of your topic here a little bit, but this is one that's important to me uh as a
42:08
filmmaker. I believe one of the many criticisms of of Christian films is we
42:14
tend to sugarcoat things and we're getting better at not doing that. And that's that's where I'm called. And I
42:20
think that that brings people into it. But um yeah, the the that um I I think
42:27
that God brought this one of one of the things um that um has come about through
42:34
this is he knew that I was someone who would u bring these issues to the
42:39
surface. Um I didn't know that. I I never, you know, I I in a million years,
42:46
Jacob, I never thought that this would be something I'd be talking about and it would be a platform for ministry. that
42:52
is important. uh but cogn and and I love the fact that you're connected with a PLOG uh because they
43:00
have to deal with um a majority uh or a large portion of
43:06
the medical community um taking the opposite stance on life than what APL
43:11
you know APL is just you know they're amazing medical professionals who are
43:17
are um aligned with God in life and and then the same thing is true
43:23
about this the sister organization called um American College of Pediatricians AC uh peds or the they're
43:30
also you know very similar to a PLOG where they're essentially fighting that same fight but with pediatricians and
43:36
the you know uh helping children with health concerns and issues and and um
43:43
and all to say is it just sounds like I'm imagining like the body of Christ where you know you're you're working
43:50
with this ag group and the messaging that they've been fighting on well working on for a long time. But you're
43:56
bringing in this ministry um pastoral videographer cog into the or
44:04
or puzzle piece into this uh puzzle or the body of Christ and and helping um
44:11
serve communities through um telling the story
44:16
um and really supporting these pro-life doctors with something that they have been trying to communicate
44:24
um through. Yeah. But yeah, but maybe not as videographers, maybe not as a pastor, but as doctors. Um, how does
44:31
that how does that resonate? That idea of like, you know, being a part of the body of Christ and and trying to help,
44:38
you know, a PLOG with getting this message out. I agree. I I I I you know, it's it's
44:45
amazing to be um part of my journey through the film has just getting to
44:51
know all the amazing pro-life work that's been out there. You know, honestly, I knew about the right the
44:56
right to life march. That was about it. I, you know, I knew there were pregnancy centers out there and I pastored
45:02
churches where we have partnered with them. But did I really understand the
45:08
the depth of everything that is going on in this movement, good and bad, right?
45:13
Um uh and uh and to be a part of that to bring in a needed peace. Um that's just
45:21
a blessing and uh so it it's just been wonderful.
45:28
Awesome. Well, Beth, before we close out, do you have any final thoughts that you'd like to share or can you also just
45:33
mention the the website again as well? Yeah. Yeah. I I I'll mention the website. It's it's um conceivable.com.
45:42
We also are on Facebook and Instagram. People can help the movie out by signing
45:48
up for uh our newsletter on the or for, you know, announcements about showings.
45:55
uh they can follow us on social media, but also I'm really uh looking for
46:02
pregnancy centers and other groups who may want to do a pre-release showing of the movie. Um we're we're doing those
46:09
all over the country. Um you can email me. Um I'd love to um there's an email
46:15
on the website, but uh my email maybe we can put it in show notes. Um
46:20
yeah, just email it to me and I can put it in there. Uh, and I think if anyone would like to, you know, turn that
46:27
pre-release screening into a fundraising Yes. um, opportunity, it probably is already
46:32
built that way, but that, you know, that would be just an easy layer to tack on
46:38
to a really fun, insightful, enjoyable, encouraging event. Yeah. Yeah. Um, centers are doing that.
46:46
I'm also speaking at banquetss and those kinds of things. So yeah, I mean, I'm
46:51
here to serve and um and it's such an important ministry that folks are doing out there and uh you know, God is making
46:59
it good. Awesome, Beth. Well, would you close out this podcast in a prayer um and and just
47:06
with the expectation that those who are listening will join in. Absolutely. Let's pray. Oh heavenly
47:12
father, Lord, we um just uh praise you for the way that uh you are so good,
47:19
that you give us life, uh that you protect life, and that you give us sound
47:26
teachings and um and hearts uh to recognize the preciousness of it. And
47:34
Lord, I just pray that um um that Jacob is continues to be blessed and bless
47:40
others through this podcast. That those who are listening uh as well are finding
47:46
um more strength as they uh put on their um their hearts for this ministry that
47:53
they are doing as well as their armor of God in doing it. And Lord, I just pray
47:59
your blessings on uh on my ministry as well. and and this film uh as we go
48:04
through the many hurdles in the film making world and Lord uh that we would
48:10
just continue to lift one another up as those cogs in the wheel of the body of
48:16
Christ and uh Lord uh thank you for this opportunity. This I pray in Jesus's
48:22
name. Amen. Amen. Before I stop the recording, I want to say one more thing on you know
48:28
end the recording. So, I'm going to put there's a my the church I go to is an oversized home church. Um, and we we do
48:36
a lot of uh well, I say we as in them. I'm I'm I I enjoy the music, but I'm not
48:42
one of the music creators, but we as a church create a lot of music. And so,
48:47
the song that I put at the beginning will be a ref a song that was written by
48:52
uh Sue Seepen, who's a one of the pastors at my church. and and she wrote the song based on Psalms 23 and it's
49:00
called uh Everywhere. And so I'm going to write uh I'll put that one at the beginning of the podcast and at the end
49:06
of the podcast I'll put one written by Mark, another pastor at our church who wrote who who wrote one about the armor
49:11
of God. And he wrote it with uh Eric Seen, another one of pastors at our
49:16
oversized home church. But anyways, just so you know that these um the songs the
49:23
will be coming from um the church band that is at my church and the church band
49:28
is called Skeptic Chickens and you can look it up on Spotify or anywhere and um
49:35
but yeah, we'll be playing the song and a lot of the the songs they craft are written based on passages of the Bible
49:42
and so some of the songs seem obscure or maybe hard to follow, but if you know that it goes based on a chapter in the
49:48
book and chapter in the Bible, it starts to make a lot more sense. And so that's where they they cut they originate from
49:54
is trying to um take ideas and passages and turning them into songs and and
49:59
effectively we're all learning the Bible if we listen to these songs, which I really enjoy. Um but uh anyways, that's
50:05
where Yeah. Uh but I'll put I'm going to put those song I often put these songs in the
50:11
beginning and the end, but I never explain where they come from. And like the last episode or one of the recent
50:17
episodes had um one about um being in the fire which you know it comes with where when Jesus was in the fire with
50:24
the three and it's a really yeah we have a lot of just really awesome songs that all that are built based on like and a
50:31
lot of the songs are actually named based on like a book of the Bible and that chapter. Like that's usually the
50:37
most common naming scheme that we've used. And um but anyway, I just wanted to put this note at the end so people
50:42
can know where all these songs are coming from.
51:04
Turn around. Take a step. Turn around.
51:10
Take a step. Put on the armor of God.
51:15
Put on the armor of God. Put on the
51:20
armor of God. Put on the armor of God. Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty
51:28
power. Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty
51:35
power. Turn around. Take a step. Turn around.
51:44
Take a step. We're going to war. We're going to war. We're going to war. We're
51:51
going to war. Not against flesh, but against the darkness.
52:00
Not against flesh, but against the darkness.
52:10
Turn around. Take a step. Turn around.
52:15
Take a step. Put on the armor of God.
52:20
Put on the armor of God. Put on the
52:25
armor of God. Put on the armor of God. Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty
52:33
power. Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty
52:40
power. Turn around. Take a step. Turn around.
52:49
Take a step. We're going to war. We're going to war. We're going to war. We're
52:56
going to war. Not against flesh, but against the darkness.
53:05
Not against flesh, but against the darkness.
53:15
Turn around, take a step. Turn around,
53:20
take a step. Turn around, take a step.
53:25
And now
53:31
the truth of righteousness,
53:37
the sandals of peace, the shield of faith,
53:44
the helmet of salvation, the blood of the spirit,
53:51
the armor of God, the armor God
54:03
turn around to take a step to turn around
54:15
the breath of the peace.
54:25
The helmet of salvation, the sword of the spirit.
54:32
The armor of God. The armor of God.
54:53
Look around. Take a step. Turn around.
54:58
Take a step. Pray in the Father. Pray in the Son. Pray in the spirit for the holy
55:06
day to come. Pray in the Father. Pray in the Son. Pray in the spirit for the holy
55:13
day to come. Pray in the Father. Pray in the Son. Pray in the spirit for the holy
55:20
day to come. Heat. Heat. Heat.
55:31
Praise the M.
55:48
God praise
55:56
God.
0:32
The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not be in want.
0:40
He makes me lie down in green. He leaves me by quiet blue.
0:47
Yeah. The walk through darkness valleys. You need your protection and guidance
0:55
are comforting me every day that I know.
1:01
Oh. Oh.
1:08
Oh
1:17
me in the presence of my enemies in front of my accusers. You're enjoying
1:22
me. You and my desire and my overflowing mercy beauty and your love are chasing
1:29
after me everywhere that I go.
1:34
Every day of my life. Everywhere I go.
1:42
Every day of my life.
2:02
You refresh and restore my soul.
2:09
You lead me in righteous pathways for your name's sake alone.
2:17
You've invited me to make your house my own.
2:24
I'll do no evil for you are with me everywhere
2:30
I go.
2:38
Oh,
2:45
it's got to be easy for me in the presence of my enemies in front of my accusers. You're enjoying me. You and
2:53
all I had is overflowing. Beauty I love chasing
2:58
after me. Everywhere I go.
3:04
Every day of my life. Everywhere
3:10
I go. Every day. Everywhere we go.
3:18
Every day of my life, let's pray where we go. Every day of my life.
3:47
Welcome to the Prolife Team podcast. I'm Jacob and I'm here with Beth and we're going to learn about a new prolife
3:54
movie. Beth, would you introduce yourself um for myself and others who
4:00
may not know you as of yet? Absolutely. Um first of all, Jacob, I want to say uh that I am excited to be
4:07
on the podcast. I'm really grateful for the work that you're doing and the audience that you connect with. uh and
4:15
uh when uh you know I had this opportunity I said it's it's actually perfect timing in a way. Um so I am
4:24
Reverend Beth Caulfield. I'm a pastor turned filmmaker. I am ordained in the
4:31
global Methodist church and we are very pro-life and I am um uh commissioned or
4:41
ordained uh into uh or appointed to a ministry of film making. And my first
4:50
feature faith-based is uh called Conceivable. and it'll be out next year
4:56
in theaters and and other places. And I am right now uh doing pre-release
5:04
showings of it with pregnancy centers and other pro-life organizations and
5:09
churches uh as we ramp up and get ready for marketing the film. So, I am someone
5:16
who has been involved in the pro-life movement uh personally through my own
5:22
personal experience, which I love to share with you about and how all this has come into making a movie and God's
5:29
involvement in that. Wow. H this is exciting. Um so, so tell
5:35
us tell us a little bit more about Conceivable. Tell us where the name came from. maybe tell us um how things got
5:41
started or maybe about the you know the you know the idea or the goals that you
5:47
might have had making this movie something. Yeah, tell us more. Absolutely. Well, I think I should
5:52
should back up and tell you that uh so in a few years ago uh when uh I was um
6:00
very involved in uh lay people ministry, I was teaching Bible studies. I was uh
6:07
teaching studies in prisons and so forth. Uh I had a call on me to go to
6:12
seminary and uh I had my kids were getting older and I started recognizing
6:18
that this was uh you know something that I could do as as my kids were getting uh
6:25
getting ready to leave the nest and um had a full ride to seminary and was one
6:31
year into it and this was in my 40s, right? And uh one year into it found out
6:38
I was pregnant. That was not my plan. Uh
6:43
and it was very uh challenging when I went through the experience of of course
6:51
the shock and and surprise and all that women go through. Uh but then what I
6:57
found was the journey for older women uh and even women of faith of of navigating
7:04
an unplanned pregnancy both with within the church as well as uh with the
7:11
medical community and uh I won't give away all the story of the movie but it
7:17
is based on my story um when this originally happened with me uh a couple
7:25
couple of years into it when my daughter is, spoiler alert, I have a beautiful daughter, um who is one of three and and
7:34
she is uh 13 years younger than my others. Uh she um uh when she was about
7:42
two, uh I recognized that it was time to uh start talking about what I had
7:48
encountered. And so I wrote articles and my first one was for Celebrate Life
7:55
magazine. It's by the American Life League and I just shared about my
8:00
experience and some of the the myths that needed to be dispelled uh as well
8:06
as uh to encourage people. Uh I also then um was asked to write for a number
8:12
of magazines about it and at that time thought about maybe I need to write a
8:17
book not thinking of it as a a book so much of telling my story but a book of
8:25
uh encouragement and facing some of the the myths and so forth out there. um
8:32
couldn't get the book together to with a publisher. And at that point, I was back
8:38
in seminary and busy and so forth. And so just kind of let it go, you know, and
8:44
went on uh with my call uh to to uh join the church and and pastor church and and
8:51
so forth. And uh was very involved in a vibrant um ordained ministry and still
8:59
am. Um but uh in um in the last couple
9:05
of years I've moved into film making and I did write another book before this and
9:11
that's called People Throw Rocks at Things That Shine: A Clergy Whistleblowers
9:17
Tale. It's about my joys and uh as well as challenges uh that you encounter in
9:24
ministry especially uh within the realm of being a more traditional pastor in a
9:31
more progressive denomination and and that's where I had originally started
9:37
out my ministry in uh the United Methodist Church. I'm now in the global Methodist church. I was one of the
9:43
leaders in finding that in founding that. Whole lot of backstory there. Um
9:49
but uh once we became global Methodists um I felt in my heart that it was time
9:54
to write the story of um of my pregnancy and uh and in my mind I was thinking
10:02
about a book but I just had trouble getting the story
10:08
out in that way. And instead uh what I started recognizing was this was a
10:15
script. this was a movie and I I went back and uh took some screenwriting
10:20
courses and um wrote the story and um and there's a lot of ministry involved
10:28
behind the scenes in in what I'm about to tell you, but wrote the story, won a a faith-based contest for the story, uh
10:36
met a studio head, um very quickly have put this um movie together and and it's
10:44
been just God's fingerprints all over it uh in terms of how just things have
10:50
lined up. And so we've completed the movie and are um about to distribute it
10:57
as I said next year uh in theaters but are doing some pre-release stories uh
11:03
showings. It is um called conceivable uh as kind of a double entandra there.
11:10
It's conceivable for a woman in her 40s to be conceivable
11:16
and uh that is one of the first uh myths that that I want to um you know deal
11:22
with. There is such an overplay of the message today about infertility. Uh you
11:30
know we hear a lot of stories of many women are choosing to have children later in life waiting uh and then we
11:37
hear a lot of stories about fertility challenges. Well my story uh is one of
11:43
many that kind of blows that out of the water um in that uh I was not going
11:50
through any kind of fertility treatment or anything like that. God found it as the the right timing for me to have my
11:56
third child. Um the other piece that uh came through um in my story uh is the
12:05
just the variety of advice that I got out there um from well-meaning friends
12:11
Christian and non-Christian as well as leaders within the church including my
12:16
own pastor and that vi advice was some of it pro-life and some of it Beth you have a
12:24
choice and uh and that was surpris surprising to me. It was also um
12:31
confusing and difficult at a time when you're in shock. Um it's uh scary when
12:39
you have uh uh medical advice uh that nudges you toward or abortion and and I
12:47
and I show that very clearly in the movie uh with our team uh and uh and at
12:55
the same time having uh Christian leaders uh say the same thing. You know,
13:01
you have a choice. Um, all that's happening while, you know, your hormones are going wild. Um, you're, as I said,
13:09
you're in shock. Uh, you're thinking about, gosh, this wasn't my plan. How am I going to
13:16
afford this? I'm about to pay for college. We'll never retire. What if this child does have problems? um all
13:24
those things with that push that well if you're going to abort a child it's
13:31
better to make that decision sooner than later. So all those pressures that are
13:37
out there on women um I wanted it to come to the forefront and that's why I wanted the story um put out there. Um so
13:46
the movie is based on my story. It's it's semi-autobiographical. Um but the the main point is uh that it
13:54
shows uh compassion for women in the situation and it also uh shows that if
14:03
you seek God, he'll make your path straight. And uh and I am very clearly
14:08
showing there those God moments where God was was speaking um to me through
14:13
other people, through through prayer, through many ways. Um making it clear
14:19
that he was with me and he had a plan with this. And uh and the hope is to
14:24
encourage others uh to when they um have really any kind of unplanned event in
14:32
life to seek God and let him make your path straight. And um it um the the
14:39
movie uh is also intended to be a conversation starter. Uh, I've written
14:44
it in a way that, you know, I describe it as uh, it's unplanned
14:50
meets uh, war room in a cheaper by the dozen kind of way.
14:56
So it it's uh the intent is while this is of course you know a heavy subject I
15:02
try to handle it in a a nonheavy way uh that is uh done so that uh it is not um
15:11
uh seen as as judgmental but rather um uh evoking conversation. It's the kind
15:19
of movie that pro-life Christians can feel comfortable bringing uh their
15:26
pro-choice friends, both Christian and non-Christian, too, and have a good conversation. Um, the hope is that it
15:34
not be uh so uncomfortable or uh uh um
15:41
legalistic that it that it, you know, evokes people to just not want to, you know, it's one of those movies. So, uh,
15:48
so that's it. You know, we've got a terrific cast, um, that includes, uh,
15:54
probably the biggest name that people know in there is Dean Kaine. Uh, he plays an OBGYn. Uh, I co-direct it with
16:03
the the star in the movie. Her name is Jana Lee Hamlin. She does a phenomenal
16:08
job. Uh, and then Eddie Mcccleintoch um, plays, you know, the the the dad who
16:14
really pulls through. And that's all I'll say on that. Wow. Yeah, this is very enticing and I'm
16:20
really I'm looking forward to seeing this someday. So, I'm imagining the
16:26
Well, it's sort of it's I mean, it's a bit I'm not sure if I I should say the
16:31
word understandable or normal or expected, but none of those words really fit. But there's certain doctors that
16:37
are okay with promoting abortion. Yeah. and and being the, you know,
16:43
whether it's this variable or the age variable of like above 40, like that's
16:48
something that not not to say that that's it's it's still shocking, but it
16:54
it really just emphasizes the need to have uh a doctor who agrees with someone's values or or um position on
17:04
life, but then the fact that there were pro-life or, you know, Christian leaders
17:09
or Christian, you people in your voices that were speaking
17:15
um on both sides of this, you know, both um promoting life or promoting really
17:20
think about your options. Um boy, that's a that's that's pretty shocking. It makes me think of um the good Samaritan
17:28
story, but instead of someone getting beat up, let's imagine you're on that road and you're you're pregnant and
17:34
you're looking for, you know, you're trying to navigate, you know, your way to that new city and there's a there's a
17:41
you know, someone walks by and it's a religious leader and they're instead of, you know, maybe instead of just ignoring you, they're promoting you to go the
17:47
wrong way. um or just not being helpful, trying to, you know, take that shortcut
17:53
that is dangerous and and violates life. Um and then yeah, but it just makes me
17:59
think of like the different people that were interacting with you and it's very different than the Good Samaritan story,
18:04
but just imagining like that that structure and how you had different people influence with different positive
18:10
messages or or questioning that positive message with a negative or, you know, trying to sew in doubt.
18:17
That's Yeah. Wow. Well, so so that is, you know, one one of the the things that the film brings
18:23
out is about surrounding yourself with with good Christian faithful friends who
18:29
understand um God's word. And uh you know, the the other thing that I I the
18:36
movie um you know brings out is the realities of what research is showing. I
18:42
don't know if you've had anyone on here yet talk about the Pew Research Center.
18:47
um a study that came out just last year uh about people's views on whether any
18:54
and all abortion should be legal or not within the church. And what that showed
18:59
is um just like uh the US adults in general um most people in the church say
19:08
that you know abortion is is something that should be supported. Um the only
19:14
category and you know Again, it's Pew Research 2024 and and and you can look
19:20
that up and we could probably put a link in the show notes, but um there's a a great graphic that shows uh white
19:27
evangelicals are the only group that that is uh against uh free reign
19:34
abortion, right? Uh uh white non-eangelical Protestants, Catholics,
19:40
black Protestants, so forth hugely flipped are for it. And so that's just
19:48
Christians in general, but we need to be tailoring and recognizing that that is
19:54
the world that we are in in the church. And then another survey um that was done
20:00
by George Bara um and I believe this one's 2022 um points out that only 37% of Christian
20:09
pastors in the United States hold a biblical worldview. Right? And that's hard to understand
20:16
that um but um by a biblical um you know he lays out what a biblical worldview is
20:23
but involves being believe in absolute moral grounded truth and the that's focused on what the Bible teaches us uh
20:31
and uh you know he goes for goes for it gives more info on that but he shows
20:39
that in that survey even only half of evangelical ical pastors possess what he
20:47
calls a biblical worldview and that's that's a reputable survey of course. So
20:54
I bring um a uh a lens to that by just showing the
21:01
story right and uh and I hope that it will lead to more work within the church
21:10
uh to uh really you know address this pastor. What do you say? I know you're in a difficult position, right? Pastors
21:18
have very difficult jobs and uh as many pro-life workers know who try to
21:24
interact with a church, especially in the pregnancy centers or um that um it
21:30
it's it can be difficult. not necessarily because the pastor isn't supportive of their work, um but rather
21:38
that they're just don't want to um they don't want to rock the boat. And uh I I
21:45
am hoping that this uh movie opens up more conversations on how do we reach
21:53
the pastors? And you know, I think there's a number of of great resources that are beginning to be put together
22:00
out there. I love uh Love Life's House of Refuge uh work where they I don't
22:06
know if you've had them on here, but Yeah, we have. Yeah, they're Yeah, they they're doing some great
22:12
work. I'd love to see more of that. You know, Rand Warren's book about uh the
22:17
alternative to abortion. Uh he he does some great sound theological work in
22:23
that um that can be helpful for bolstering um pastors. You know, it's um
22:30
pastors face a lot of pressures not only from within their congregation but
22:35
especially if they're in more progressive denominations from the denomination itself.
22:42
Um you know I I give an example of the denomination that I came out of uh the
22:47
United Methodist Church that I left for the global Methodist church the more traditional one. um at their general
22:54
conference um uh last year uh they passed a petition uh affirming a right
23:01
to abortion and and uh and it passed the floor. Now when they uh went to uh
23:10
revise their social principles, they tweaked it and it still is less
23:16
supportive of abortion, but it came that close. And that is um you know uh in my
23:25
belief an alarm that people who are involved in their churches need to know
23:30
what's going on. Uh so while the book doesn't go into those or the movie
23:35
doesn't go into those details uh it does show that hey we need to think about
23:41
this. This is another area for us to to do more work on.
23:47
Wow. Yeah. And so in the word abortion, sometimes people will include subtopics
23:55
into it and then some people don't include certain subtopics into it. So like if I said the word milk, you know,
24:02
it probably would include 2% whole milk, skim milk, fat-free milk, but it may or may not include the dairyfree almond
24:08
milk, you know, I don't know. But but so when I say the word abortion, so like when you're saying the you know the
24:15
group that was you know saying abortion, I guess the question is is did they
24:21
detail out what was included and what was not included? Because that's a it's abortion is almost like the word milk
24:27
when it comes. There's a lot of there's a lot of things underneath it like for example um medical surgical abortions of
24:35
course but then there's also ectopic pregnancies where sometimes the life of
24:42
the child is ended before it ends naturally in order to not have a
24:48
ruptured fallopian tube. And personally, I think that is wise to do. And I know
24:55
that not everyone agrees with with me on that, but I think that that is smart to
25:01
preserve the life of the mother. Um, and and I'm wondering if that was included
25:06
or not included, and that might have created that. I'm not sure what what created the friction, you know, being
25:12
against certain abortions. And then there's always the then there's also the scenarios, the stories like rape and
25:17
incest. Um, and personally I think those are hard those are hard things to think about. But but at the same time I have
25:25
seen the fruit of where God has used the life of a of a gentleman by the name of Stephen who was born out of a case like
25:33
that and he his life is evidence of how precious life is even when it comes from
25:39
very hard beginnings. And so I'm wondering yeah what was included in that word abortion or how do they how do they
25:45
detail it out? Right. Right. and and and the details of of to that level I do not believe were
25:52
included. It was more focused on uh women's reproductive health. You know
25:58
that that language and uh and uh and their right to it. You know what I would
26:04
say is I'm in total agreement with you. I I love some of the work that um APLOG
26:10
uh has been doing, American Association of Pro-life OBGYNS. Yeah. um that uh they have done a good
26:18
job of saying that you know we're really talking about induced abortion and there
26:23
are categories within induced abortion. Ectopic pregnancies are a different thing. Um issues uh of of preserving uh
26:32
a life are a different thing. Um so I um I I I
26:39
believe that the most important thing are these conversations need to happen.
26:46
I think that there can be much more um gained by having an environment where
26:53
people who are on both sides of this can sit down and listen to one another and
26:58
really see where we're talking apples to apples and where we're not. And and I
27:04
think that that's that's part of the problem right now. And that's part of my hope is to provide something that yes,
27:12
I'm not going to deny it's a pro-life movie by any means, but it is something that um raises a lot of the issues that
27:21
that people are either afraid of or misinformed of what other people's views
27:26
are on it. Yeah. I I was doing some research on um
27:32
uh abortion abolitionists and and they were actually opposed to you know the
27:38
the procedure of helping a woman in a topic pregnancy which sort of threw me off. I didn't know that there was a
27:44
group that was um that I don't know it just drew me I I didn't expect that and but but at the
27:51
same time sometimes we all get grouped into the same sort of like you know
27:57
under the word milk or under you know under the word pro-life or under the word against abortion and we have
28:03
there's some groups that are um that are very unique in some of their positions or you know or I would call wrong I
28:10
guess but um and and so yeah, I I would agree a topic pregnancy it does end the
28:17
life of a six-w weekek old um child when
28:22
being removed from the fallopian tube. But at the at the benefit of not having
28:28
a rupture and and saving the life of the mother if it were, you know, if it were to rupture that fallopian tube and it's
28:34
just simply like it's not an abortion because abortion usually means like there's a a chance for the child to live
28:41
and and there's a there's an end that's you know a choice being made to end that life. And so I would yeah I would agree
28:47
with how you how you phrased it, how you said like that's not under abortion. But I'm just wondering like if someone
28:53
included some language like that, it makes it so we have to sort of know what words we're using and what's included
28:58
because some of these some of these words get used different ways by different groups.
29:03
Exactly. Yeah, I you know I I I think um you know I as I said I'm I love what
29:10
applog has put out there but it it hits on you know where so my calling in my
29:16
ministry in this film ministry is to address what I'll call morally complex
29:23
issues. You know, we the reality is um there there are truths in this world,
29:30
but we're also in a fallen world and there are all kinds of ramifications
29:35
from that both, you know, medically in relationally, you know, on and on,
29:41
right? Uh we should not uh and I think we do a disservice to our cause as
29:48
Christians as as well as pro-life advocates. We shouldn't shy away from
29:53
addressing complexities and just saying, "Oh, you know, it's just that's it. It's
29:59
one way." Um, but instead have faith uh in God in engaging in these things and
30:07
encourage uh and and as the movie shows um you know, my character goes on what
30:13
I'll call a a spiritual pilgrimage, right? um where she really really needs
30:19
to hear from God because she's hearing there might be something wrong with her baby. She's hearing, you know, this is
30:25
going to mess up my life. She's hearing a whole bunch of things. Um and she needs to get along with God and and he
30:33
shows up. Wow. So, that really sort of So, I want
30:38
to ask you um what seems to me like a hard question, but it may not be hard to you. So, and based on what you just
30:46
said, I feel like there's a lot of um uh um a lot of parallels here. So in the
30:53
story of Abraham and Isaac when Abraham was asked to sacrifice his son Isaac and
31:01
and um to to test his faith um that's one of the stories in the Bible that I
31:08
see as difficult as someone who's against abortion because you know do I
31:14
do I you know I I I ask myself like do I always follow God or am I or do I have
31:21
this rule And I and what I've come to is that I should always follow God and and and and
31:29
follow his direction from the Bible from from you know the way he speaks, the way
31:36
he communicates. I should follow him. And and and I pull that and and I think
31:43
about the Abraham Isaac situation of trust God and keep following him even if
31:48
what he tells you sometimes is really hard and and so would you based on what
31:54
you just said how you went to you you're following God even through hard times you're getting advice from people who
32:00
seem like they're Christian leaders in your life. Can you sort of, you know, maybe try and
32:07
think about the Abraham Isaac story and your story and sort of just speak about that and how you chose to follow God and
32:14
speak more about that? Yeah. Uh you first of all I I thank you for bringing that up because that is the
32:20
perfect story to bring up for this. Uh and yes, you're right. You know, uh the
32:27
the big lesson that I take out of and many theologians take out of that Abraham Isaac story is are we going to
32:36
um follow God no matter what? Even it no matter what it looks like through man,
32:43
even through our own moral laws, which that's really freaks me out too, right?
32:51
It's hard to grapple with. It's very hard to grapple but I think it brings to
32:56
another point and that is are we about the cause? Are we about following God
33:04
who is behind the cause? Yeah. Right. And and uh and I think that is
33:10
very key and Jacob I don't have to tell you that's a huge issue.
33:16
And uh and and I think that um back to to my story and in the movie itself um
33:23
that's exactly um what happens with someone who is in
33:29
that situation there's so much confusion and I think that's life in general. when
33:34
we all find ourselves in unplanned situations, you know, the the job is lost, you know, whatever it is, um there
33:44
are many paths. Uh and sometimes sometimes it's it can get confusing. Um
33:52
but if you're seeking God with all your heart, you know, through prayer, through through getting with godly friends,
33:58
which I do show some some wonderful people who had some great advice in the movie as well. Um but uh and getting
34:05
along, you know, really um journaling and everything else, he shows up. Will
34:12
the answer necessarily be light bulb easy? No. It's usually a faith
34:20
decision, but you know in your heart that that's where you're being led to. There's nothing wrong with going out and
34:27
getting sound medical advice. That's that should be that's important there.
34:32
Um and and and I'm certainly not um u discouraging people from um from seeking
34:38
out advice from Christian leaders. That is very important too. Um I am um more
34:45
importantly just saying that if you use the resources that God has given you, the Bible, Christian leaders, friends,
34:53
and your own personal relationship with him, he'll make the path straight. When
34:58
I chose, and again, I can't give away the movie, but when I chose Yes. I'm
35:04
just I'm I'm done with testing. I'm Excuse me.
35:11
No worries. I'm done with testing. I'm done with
35:17
doubting. Um I also um you know I I reveal some things that that I found out
35:24
in in the movie. But um when I made that decision in my heart to make that leap
35:32
and I did that with my husband um there was such a release and and you
35:39
know people know that in many decisions that they make when they follow God even
35:45
the first one to just accept him as Lord and Savior. So, um
35:51
that that is uh key to our journey on this and um and and it's my hope that
35:57
this movie be seen more as a journey of faith than anything else.
36:03
Oh, that's so good. So, I'm going to take you on another So, one of the ways I like the way my church will often um
36:11
help us understand what to do in different scenarios is we try and reflect on scripture.
36:18
um based on what we're currently going through and and and trying to you know
36:23
ask questions and trying to really you know almost like a journal a journaling kind of way to understand how scripture
36:30
can apply or at least some scripture can apply to a certain situation. So um
36:35
based on Psalms 23 when you were going through this hard time and you end up
36:41
choosing you went you chose yes how did what were your green pastures? What what was God putting in your path that was
36:49
really delightful and restored your soul? And then what was your still waters as in you had to follow him, but
36:56
it was also very refreshing for your soul? What were your Yeah. What was your green pastures and still waters during
37:02
this time? Oh, that's a great question. And and I and I'm wondering, you must have watched
37:07
the trailer for the movie because there's I have not seen the trailer. There's a powerful scene that is revealed in the
37:14
trailer of her praying the 23rd Psalm
37:19
in a beautiful setting. I would I'd like to see it. I just haven't seen it yet. Lord,
37:24
no, we we you I'll just tell your viewers they can go to our our website
37:29
um which isthemov.com. There's a whole lot of information about it, including the trailer. Um but uh
37:37
yeah and so we filmed she went on a spiritual um u pilgrimage which I actually did uh to France. It was part
37:45
of my seminary work and I was pregnant and I and I went uh and um getting the
37:52
opportunity in in that case I went to some beautiful houses of worship, old
37:58
cathedrals, you know, chartra over a thousand years old, right? Um different
38:04
places of of Christian heritage and having the opportunity to pray and mine
38:10
were desperate prayers at that time. uh and um to I I I walked a labyrinth. I
38:17
had time to journal and I had a powerful friend in my life uh who really
38:24
encouraged me. And then God showed up in an amazing way. And I can't I show it in
38:30
the movie, but I'm not going to I'm not going to tell you, Jacob. Um um but uh
38:36
it was those that was a time of of of
38:42
refreshing especially once I released just released myself to the Lord and and really
38:49
enjoyed um we show um time that I spent in a Christian community called Taz
38:56
which is in um Burgundy, France. absolutely beautiful. They're worshiping
39:02
with people from all over the world, all different denominations. Um that's one
39:07
of the things that I that I love to um expose people to through this movie is is people don't even know places like
39:14
that exist, right? Um but um so so that was my refreshing. I I the the the uh
39:23
challenging times were just uh in the beginning. Um
39:30
I I prayed so much and I show this in the movie when I was scared. Um when I
39:36
was I you know I will share one line in the movie that was true. I I I think I
39:41
let God down. That's how confused I was. I let God down. I'm supposed to be in training for
39:48
pastor and do something else. Now I'm going to be having another kid. I I
39:53
messed up. And those were one of the one of the many lies that that the enemy,
39:58
you know, puts in front of you that are easy to grasp and uh let take hold in
40:04
your life. Oh, that's so good. So, I want to ask you a follow-up question about Psalms
40:10
23. So, with those who were telling you the, you know, essentially promoting
40:15
abortion through maybe soft language like, you know, look at all your options, but yet still opening up that
40:22
space. Um, let's just for, you know, for Psalms 23 language, let's just put them
40:28
into the under the word enemy. I'm not saying that they're your enemy, but I'm just saying like, so in that in the
40:33
passage where it says, um, you know, he prepares a table for you in the presence
40:38
of your enemies, meaning people that were pushing you in the wrong direction in this case. Yes. um how you know what was that like to to
40:47
you know to have those people who were promoting you know other choices and options and maybe not the best not
40:53
encouragement at least and what was it like to for God to take care of you and
40:58
to provide a meal and and while your enemies were looking on in that time.
41:06
What was that like? Well, I I I think that next line in the psalm, he anoints
41:11
my head with oil, right? And and I think that um both my faith in knowing where
41:20
to turn even though I was confused and scared and everything else, but also
41:27
having other voices in my life that spoke, you know, who just were there
41:32
with me. I mean there were um there were friends who you know spent hours on the
41:39
phone with me praying and encouraging me and you know listening to my tears
41:44
listening to my you know disappointment and all those all those things that I'm
41:50
very honest about in the movie you know and I I think that that's an important
41:55
part of of telling a good story is being honest and not making it just sugarcoat
42:02
it. And I think that's um I'm off of your topic here a little bit, but this is one that's important to me uh as a
42:08
filmmaker. I believe one of the many criticisms of of Christian films is we
42:14
tend to sugarcoat things and we're getting better at not doing that. And that's that's where I'm called. And I
42:20
think that that brings people into it. But um yeah, the the that um I I think
42:27
that God brought this one of one of the things um that um has come about through
42:34
this is he knew that I was someone who would u bring these issues to the
42:39
surface. Um I didn't know that. I I never, you know, I I in a million years,
42:46
Jacob, I never thought that this would be something I'd be talking about and it would be a platform for ministry. that
42:52
is important. uh but cogn and and I love the fact that you're connected with a PLOG uh because they
43:00
have to deal with um a majority uh or a large portion of
43:06
the medical community um taking the opposite stance on life than what APL
43:11
you know APL is just you know they're amazing medical professionals who are
43:17
are um aligned with God in life and and then the same thing is true
43:23
about this the sister organization called um American College of Pediatricians AC uh peds or the they're
43:30
also you know very similar to a PLOG where they're essentially fighting that same fight but with pediatricians and
43:36
the you know uh helping children with health concerns and issues and and um
43:43
and all to say is it just sounds like I'm imagining like the body of Christ where you know you're you're working
43:50
with this ag group and the messaging that they've been fighting on well working on for a long time. But you're
43:56
bringing in this ministry um pastoral videographer cog into the or
44:04
or puzzle piece into this uh puzzle or the body of Christ and and helping um
44:11
serve communities through um telling the story
44:16
um and really supporting these pro-life doctors with something that they have been trying to communicate
44:24
um through. Yeah. But yeah, but maybe not as videographers, maybe not as a pastor, but as doctors. Um, how does
44:31
that how does that resonate? That idea of like, you know, being a part of the body of Christ and and trying to help,
44:38
you know, a PLOG with getting this message out. I agree. I I I I you know, it's it's
44:45
amazing to be um part of my journey through the film has just getting to
44:51
know all the amazing pro-life work that's been out there. You know, honestly, I knew about the right the
44:56
right to life march. That was about it. I, you know, I knew there were pregnancy centers out there and I pastored
45:02
churches where we have partnered with them. But did I really understand the
45:08
the depth of everything that is going on in this movement, good and bad, right?
45:13
Um uh and uh and to be a part of that to bring in a needed peace. Um that's just
45:21
a blessing and uh so it it's just been wonderful.
45:28
Awesome. Well, Beth, before we close out, do you have any final thoughts that you'd like to share or can you also just
45:33
mention the the website again as well? Yeah. Yeah. I I I'll mention the website. It's it's um conceivable.com.
45:42
We also are on Facebook and Instagram. People can help the movie out by signing
45:48
up for uh our newsletter on the or for, you know, announcements about showings.
45:55
uh they can follow us on social media, but also I'm really uh looking for
46:02
pregnancy centers and other groups who may want to do a pre-release showing of the movie. Um we're we're doing those
46:09
all over the country. Um you can email me. Um I'd love to um there's an email
46:15
on the website, but uh my email maybe we can put it in show notes. Um
46:20
yeah, just email it to me and I can put it in there. Uh, and I think if anyone would like to, you know, turn that
46:27
pre-release screening into a fundraising Yes. um, opportunity, it probably is already
46:32
built that way, but that, you know, that would be just an easy layer to tack on
46:38
to a really fun, insightful, enjoyable, encouraging event. Yeah. Yeah. Um, centers are doing that.
46:46
I'm also speaking at banquetss and those kinds of things. So yeah, I mean, I'm
46:51
here to serve and um and it's such an important ministry that folks are doing out there and uh you know, God is making
46:59
it good. Awesome, Beth. Well, would you close out this podcast in a prayer um and and just
47:06
with the expectation that those who are listening will join in. Absolutely. Let's pray. Oh heavenly
47:12
father, Lord, we um just uh praise you for the way that uh you are so good,
47:19
that you give us life, uh that you protect life, and that you give us sound
47:26
teachings and um and hearts uh to recognize the preciousness of it. And
47:34
Lord, I just pray that um um that Jacob is continues to be blessed and bless
47:40
others through this podcast. That those who are listening uh as well are finding
47:46
um more strength as they uh put on their um their hearts for this ministry that
47:53
they are doing as well as their armor of God in doing it. And Lord, I just pray
47:59
your blessings on uh on my ministry as well. and and this film uh as we go
48:04
through the many hurdles in the film making world and Lord uh that we would
48:10
just continue to lift one another up as those cogs in the wheel of the body of
48:16
Christ and uh Lord uh thank you for this opportunity. This I pray in Jesus's
48:22
name. Amen. Amen. Before I stop the recording, I want to say one more thing on you know
48:28
end the recording. So, I'm going to put there's a my the church I go to is an oversized home church. Um, and we we do
48:36
a lot of uh well, I say we as in them. I'm I'm I I enjoy the music, but I'm not
48:42
one of the music creators, but we as a church create a lot of music. And so,
48:47
the song that I put at the beginning will be a ref a song that was written by
48:52
uh Sue Seepen, who's a one of the pastors at my church. and and she wrote the song based on Psalms 23 and it's
49:00
called uh Everywhere. And so I'm going to write uh I'll put that one at the beginning of the podcast and at the end
49:06
of the podcast I'll put one written by Mark, another pastor at our church who wrote who who wrote one about the armor
49:11
of God. And he wrote it with uh Eric Seen, another one of pastors at our
49:16
oversized home church. But anyways, just so you know that these um the songs the
49:23
will be coming from um the church band that is at my church and the church band
49:28
is called Skeptic Chickens and you can look it up on Spotify or anywhere and um
49:35
but yeah, we'll be playing the song and a lot of the the songs they craft are written based on passages of the Bible
49:42
and so some of the songs seem obscure or maybe hard to follow, but if you know that it goes based on a chapter in the
49:48
book and chapter in the Bible, it starts to make a lot more sense. And so that's where they they cut they originate from
49:54
is trying to um take ideas and passages and turning them into songs and and
49:59
effectively we're all learning the Bible if we listen to these songs, which I really enjoy. Um but uh anyways, that's
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where Yeah. Uh but I'll put I'm going to put those song I often put these songs in the
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beginning and the end, but I never explain where they come from. And like the last episode or one of the recent
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episodes had um one about um being in the fire which you know it comes with where when Jesus was in the fire with
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the three and it's a really yeah we have a lot of just really awesome songs that all that are built based on like and a
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lot of the songs are actually named based on like a book of the Bible and that chapter. Like that's usually the
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most common naming scheme that we've used. And um but anyway, I just wanted to put this note at the end so people
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can know where all these songs are coming from.
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Turn around. Take a step. Turn around.
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Take a step. Put on the armor of God.
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Put on the armor of God. Put on the
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armor of God. Put on the armor of God. Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty
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power. Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty
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power. Turn around. Take a step. Turn around.
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Take a step. We're going to war. We're going to war. We're going to war. We're
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going to war. Not against flesh, but against the darkness.
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Not against flesh, but against the darkness.
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Turn around. Take a step. Turn around.
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Take a step. Put on the armor of God.
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Put on the armor of God. Put on the
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armor of God. Put on the armor of God. Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty
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power. Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty
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power. Turn around. Take a step. Turn around.
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Take a step. We're going to war. We're going to war. We're going to war. We're
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going to war. Not against flesh, but against the darkness.
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Not against flesh, but against the darkness.
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Turn around, take a step. Turn around,
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take a step. Turn around, take a step.
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And now
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the truth of righteousness,
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the sandals of peace, the shield of faith,
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the helmet of salvation, the blood of the spirit,
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the armor of God, the armor God
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turn around to take a step to turn around
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the breath of the peace.
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The helmet of salvation, the sword of the spirit.
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The armor of God. The armor of God.
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Look around. Take a step. Turn around.
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Take a step. Pray in the Father. Pray in the Son. Pray in the spirit for the holy
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day to come. Pray in the Father. Pray in the Son. Pray in the spirit for the holy
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day to come. Pray in the Father. Pray in the Son. Pray in the spirit for the holy
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day to come. Heat. Heat. Heat.
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Praise the M.
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God praise
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God.