SPEAKER_03 3:27

Welcome to the ProLife Team podcast. Today I'm with Abby Johnson, a former Planned Parenthood clinic director, turned pro-life advocate. She's the author of the best-selling book Unplanned, which is also made into a major motion picture. And she's also the founder of And Then There Were None, a ministry that helps abortion workers transition out of the industry. Abby's latest project is the powerful new documentary Unthinkable. And today we're going to hear more about Unthinkable. Welcome, Abby.

SPEAKER_04 4:02

Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

So tell us, what is Unthinkable about? Or what's the uh what's the idea behind Unthinkable?

SPEAKER_04 4:14

Yeah, so I run a ministry called In Then There Were None, and we help abortion clinic workers leave the industry and come into a saving relationship with Christ. And we're the only ministry of its kind uh in the world that's doing that. And we have these healing retreats uh every every year. We have several of them a year. And uh we were one time just kind of sitting around talking at one of the healing retreats, and um we were talking about a documentary that we had watched, uh, the Leah Remini documentary about Scientology. And we were talking about how that was such a good show, and um several of us were saying, you know, man, we could we could put out a show like that about just the how Planned Parenthood in the abortion industry is is almost like a cult in itself, and how um, you know, the things that they do when you leave, you know, they sue you, they you know, try to scare you, and they try to get you back and and all this kind of stuff. They try to separate you from your family, and there's a lot of sort of the similar techniques that are used. And um, and so that just got me thinking that we really could do a documentary about it and just about all of the sinister things that the abortion industry is doing um to women, to babies, to the workers themselves, just the dark sort of nature surrounding abortion and the the industry of abortion. And so we just kind of started working from there, and I talked to some of the workers and said, look, I you know, we talked about it. I'm thinking about doing it, and they got really excited about it and wanted to be a part of it. And so we have about three dozen former abortion workers that are a part of this film project, and we sit down and we talk to them, um, sharing their experiences. I mean, it is I know a lot of people were moved by Unplanned, and that was just my story and the things that I saw from you know one abortion facility. And after Unplanned came out, there were a lot of people, you know, pro-abortion people who said, Well, that was just your story, you know, that was just one facility. That was sort of like a, you know, like a one-off sort of situation. And so I really wanted to put that to the test and and and film it and kind of challenge that and say, you know, okay, let's see, you know, is it just a one-off or is there a systemic problem happening in the abortion industry? And surprise, it is a systemic problem happening in the abortion industry because they are murdering people for profit. And uh some of the stories that people are going to hear in this documentary are I think people are gonna walk away saying, is that for real? Like, did that did that really happen? Um but the the great thing about the about this documentary is that there's no anonymity. No one is behind a curtain, no one is you know, behind a black screen, no one is anonymous. Um you know, the women are so brave to put their names, their full names and their faces and the places where they worked right out there for everyone to see. And they are admitting to the most grievous acts, you know, the the worst, they are publicly confessing their worst sins that they've ever committed, and they're doing it for these children, you know, almost as a a reparation in a way for what they've done. And we had a couple of situations where we actually had to contact attorneys and we had to contact the attorneys general in the the states where these people lived and where these women worked because uh they were accomplices to murder. And we had to find out uh, you know, what could be the repercussions of them admitting this on camera. And we knew, you know, after talking to uh the these particular attorney generals, like what you know, that they weren't going to go after them, right? But that doesn't mean that later on there's no statute of limitations on murder. So it doesn't mean later on someone couldn't come after them. And we had to explain that to them. Um, and and basically said, you know, you have a decision to make. Um knowing that there could be possible prosecution in your future, you know, you have to make this final decision. And both of the women, I mean, without hesitation, said this is what I have to do. And if it means one day I have to sit in prison, then that will be my consequence, and that would be a just a consequence for what I have done. But these babies deserve for their stories to be told, and these women deserve for their stories to be told. And I I just think people are going to be shaken to their core by what they hear in this documentary.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

Wow. Yeah, I I watched the uh the preview or the trailer as well as uh uh a video you had made, and I I I just I I'm very um I I'm excited to watch what you put together. It it looks um very intense and um like a almost like a rejuvenation of passion for the work that we have in the pro-life prancy clinic space. And just simply uh as a good um almost like a uh revival of passion for for a reminder of like why we're doing this and what how how important this is um based on the the tragesties or the just the terrible things that are we can help prevent and stop and and provide healing for as a as a group.

SPEAKER_04 11:26

Um yeah, I and I I think that's I I think we do all kind of need a shot in the arm sometimes, you know, of the reality that's taking place. Um, you know, we are a movement that preaches about you know love and mercy, and and certainly we need that. And we are right now working on a um kind of a consortium of of abortion recovery ministries that can really um come together uh uh to help women who watch this documentary that then realize I need healing. You know, I've had an abortion, I've helped take someone to an abortion facility, I've participated in abortion, you know, we're working on those resources. We want to make sure that we have a robust amount of resources available for people who are impacted, who have been impacted by abortion and um and need help, right? Um, who need that recovery assistance. So we are putting those processes in place as well. Um but I I think sometimes I I think in the movement sometimes we this grace and mercy piece uh becomes so overwhelming that we forget about the justice part. And um and there has to be a balance because yes, uh God is uh is grace and love and merciful and it's infinite, right? But God is also a God of justice, and um and we have to keep that in mind as well, and that these children, these innocent human beings deserve justice, and and so we can't just be a movement that's all about rainbows and butterflies and fluffy sweet things, right? Because we are murdering babies, we are murdering innocent human beings, and they are the victims of this Holocaust, they are the victims of this tragedy, and that has to be at the forefront of everything we do, right? Yes, we want women to recover and heal from what they have done, but always being reminded that what did they do? They took an innocent human life, and I'm I'm saying this from a place. I mean, I am a woman who has murdered two of her children. And so I'm not saying that from a place of judgment, but I'm saying it as a place from a place of truth. We can't expect people to heal from what they don't accept. And I think this documentary is gonna really bring that forward. We have to accept what we have done as a people, as a nation, as a society, what our culture has allowed. We have normalized, we have allowed the murder of innocent human beings. And we have to rectify that as a society. And uh I I think that uh this uh this documentary, even more than unplanned, uh, is going to be so shocking and so devastating that it it's going to force people to come to grips with what has been taking place in these abortion facilities each and every day.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

Yeah. Would you um one one of my favorite verses or a verse that speaks to this um you know, this opportunity for healing is James 5.16, where it says, confess your sins one to another, so you may be healed, and the prayers of a righteous person availeth much. What are your thoughts on that verse? And when it comes to confessing, um, you know, especially in this scenario, what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_04 15:45

I think it's so important. Um, I think that's such a beautiful verse. You know, uh the verse in Revelation, it talks about that we will overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the power of our testimony, right? Our testimonies are so important. And so when when uh you know that verse talks about you know confessing to one another, that's essentially our testimony, right? Our confession is our testimony. And and I think that uh one of the ways that abortion uh will end in this and and really I mean abortion's never going to totally end, right, until Jesus returns, because abortion is sin, it's a sin problem, and sin will always exist until Jesus returns. But I think one of the ways that that people that that abortion will sort of uh become abnormal in our culture, the same way that we see slavery, right, is like a like like I can't believe we did that, right? Like it's it's just it's some we'll see it as unjust, right? Um it will be unjustifiable in this kind. Like people will just say, I cannot believe we did that. Like how barbaric were we as a nation, right? I think that's that's what we're kind of looking for with abortion. People will see it as unjust, they will see it as barbarism. Um, I think one of the ways that we get there is by our testimony, it's by confessing to one another, it's by telling our stories. And I I don't think there's anybody that truly has not been affected by abortion in some way. It may not be that that you yourself has had an abortion. Uh, it may not be that you have taken your girlfriend to get an abortion. It may not be, you know, that you have uh that you have, you know, yourself, you know, laid on the table and had an abortion. But I think that we've all been affected in some way. You've maybe you've heard a testimony that made you even more committed to defend life. Maybe you met an abortion survivor or you heard an abortion survivor's testimony. Maybe you have heard a testimony of a former abortion worker that really touched your life. And that becomes part of your testimony, right? Of why you are so committed to defending life. You know, that person's testimony changed your life. And then that becomes part of your testimony. Um, maybe you had a child before you were married, and that really uh uh, you know, uh uh helped your commitment to the unborn, you know? Maybe you had a child that with with a disability um and you were encouraged to have an abortion and you chose life. Um you know, there's so many different ways that uh that testimonies creep into our lives, right? And and I think we need to use those. And uh and and I think uh Satan wants to bind us up in shame. He wants to bind us up in our sin, but God wants to free us from that bondage. Jesus wants to free us from that bondage, and one of the ways that he does that is by confessing our sin to him and also to one another, so that it uh it is in the light. You know, sun is the best disinfectant, right? Light is the best disinfectant. And once we say it, once we confess it to someone, to one another, to your best friend, to your mom, to your dad, to your sister, whoever, once we confess it, it's now in the light. And Satan no longer has power over it, he no longer has control over it. And uh there is power in in confession, there's power in our testimony, the Bible speaks of it. And I think that's why it's so important. I think that's one of the ways, I think that's one of the most powerful ways that we will one day see abortion as as something that is unjust in our nation.

SPEAKER_03 20:03

Yeah. Uh I was talking with my my daughter recently, and she was sharing well, some some thoughts that she had been coming up with during her Bible time and prayer time, and one of them was altars. So, like we're called in the Bible to like um to sacrifice ourselves daily for Christ, or to, you know, to carry his cross and you know, and essentially be a living sacrifice for Christ. And then, but we have the other option of choosing, you know, a selfish, and you know, a very uh enjoyable slash selfish decision, and then putting our, you know, to essentially sacrifice something good on a bad altar. And and I feel like I've been thinking about that a lot lately, and I don't I don't really have like a sermon or a Bible passage that really connects with that idea, but I feel like the Bible speaks to altars, especially when it comes to like how it says that we should sacrifice um on the on a daily basis, be a living sacrifice for Christ, but we're often choosing um a sinful altar to, you know, and and I feel like I feel like that really connects in some way with so confessing is not an easy thing to do. That's a good sacrifice on you know for for Christ, uh, because it's essentially we're sacrificing our desire to hide the truth and to try and escape that. Um but I feel like it's a it's a decision between two alt, you know, different altars, good and bad. And um, and I'm not expecting you to have you know a lot to say on that, but if you want to say anything on that, they're welcome to. But that's a little bit uh left wing or left field of a comment. But I feel like it connects here somehow.

SPEAKER_04 21:52

It does, yeah. I I think it's really good. I love when our children read the Bible and come to us with some sort of like wisdom. I love that because.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:01

I think God gives our children such wisdom that it is just so pure. And I love that. My daughter's 18 and and she's a studier of the word. And she comes to me with all these like amazing things I've never thought about, you know, and and I just love it.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

Um yeah, this is from my 19-year-old daughter.

SPEAKER_04 22:22

So yeah, the same genre of age and yeah, they still have that like childlike faith. And I and I just I love it. She teaches me so much.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

She's our baby adult.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Um, you know, the Bible talks, it says, uh scripture says, you know, before you I will set life and death, right? And choose life. It's kind of that same thing, you know, there will be you know altars set before us, right? Good and evil. Um, and the Bible talks about this a lot. I mean, even in the Old Testament, where people were sacrificing their children on these altars, right? To Baal and Molech and um these you know false gods. And uh we see uh you know altars to false gods everywhere now in our society, but this isn't new, certainly. Um just like abortion is not new, um, child sacrifice is not new, which that's what abortion is, is child sacrifice. We just now we call it something more palatable. But uh it's a it's an altar, right? It's a it's a sinful altar that is for you know selfish reasons, selfishness, uh putting yourself before another, which in itself is is an altar. Um, you know, that we we put pride uh above humility. We uh certainly money, right? We're can always concerned about finances. I you know, I can't tell you how many times women would come into our abortion facility and say, I just don't have enough money to have this kid. Um, but they had enough money to kill the kid. Um, you know, even altar of of of vanity, of beauty, uh, you know, we get phone calls on our crisis hotline from women who say, I don't want to have a baby because it'll give me stretch marks on my body. So even that vanity, um I think there's so many uh false gods that we worship today. And I I think selfishness is really the the primary reason that abortion is still taking place, that abortion, you know, takes place. And uh and we throw ourselves before it. And uh, and instead of spending time at you know, at the foot of the cross, instead of spending time in front of the altar of Christ, um, we we build up these other altars of self.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:18

And and the Bible talks so much about that in in the Old Testament and you know what God did with those with those false gods, with those altars. Um and he destroyed them. And and look at the destruction that we're having in our society today. Um, you know, look at the the destruction of families and homes and even the the destruction of of women. Um and I I think it has to be, I think part of it has to be because we have chosen self-love over selflessness. And that all of that, it makes so much sense what your daughter was saying. Yeah, you know, women don't even know who they are anymore, but they certainly don't want to be mothers.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

And and I think confessing sin is a way of defy defiling that bad altar. I think I think that's actually a way of like breaking it down or graffitiing it so it's no longer got as much control as it did before. And and until we confess, that altar has power or control over that space. And and so I think confession is like is literally the way to um spoil or defile a bad altar. Like I think confessing confession is like taking back territory.

SPEAKER_04 26:50

Oh, yeah, yeah, 100%. And I've had to do that in my life many times. I mean, um, yeah, I'll say Jacob, even just not even that long ago, um, you know, even in in this sort of space that I'm in, just even kind of this pro-life space that I'm in, you know, you you always, you know, kind of in this, I don't know, I I didn't ask for it, but I I got kind of thrown into this pro-life leader space, right? I didn't ask to be a leader in the pro-life movement. I I didn't even I didn't even want it, right? And I I got put into this, into this kind of leadership role.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

I think you were you were needed. You were you were you were filling a space that was like we, you know, the the movement embraced you very quickly as someone we needed to hear from.

SPEAKER_04 27:47

And I and I did all of my healing in public in front of everybody. I would not recommend zero stars. Um, and uh, but I did all of this healing in public and it was messy and it was ugly, and I said the wrong things because I did not know what I was doing, and I did some of the wrong things because I did not know what I was doing. I did not have anyone mentoring me that had gone through the same thing I had gone through, right? Because there just weren't people that had been abortion clinic directors that were now pro-life and in that space, like kind of leading me and helping me, right? There were there wasn't anyone else. And so I was really kind of doing this alone. And and so, you know, you mess up and you try to make it right, and then people are like, What do you mean? You just said this two months ago, and now you're saying this, and what are you flip-flopping all the time? And you, you know, but you're trying to grow in in grace, and you're trying to grow in your walk with Christ. And and it really wasn't until two summers ago that I felt like I really started healing on from what I had done. And um, and it was and it was then that it was almost like I felt it like in my chest that God said to me, only chase me. And it he said to me, You're chasing the wrong things, only chase me. And I think when you're and and that was like, oh my gosh, like I I had to confess to people, I've been trying to be the voice that people listen to in this movement. But really, the only voice that I should be representing is God's voice. And I it was it was such a pivotal time in my life two summers ago. Um because there it was like I dropped out of the competition, you know? It's like there's so many people in this movement who are trying to constantly get their voice out, constantly get their opinions out, constantly get their podcast out, which I'm not talking about you. No, but like you know what I'm saying? Like, there's there's all these people that are constantly trying, like, I'm the right voice. I my opinion is right, whatever. And God was like, stop it. Like, you're I don't need you for that. And uh, it was really humbling to me. And that was when God was finally like, I just want you to to give people my words, not your words. It's it your opinion doesn't matter. It's what I say matters, and I had to really um rethink everything that I was doing. I had to rethink everything I was saying, and um I had to rethink uh, you know, our ministries, you know, how are we putting ourselves out there? Um we're not out here competing for donors, we're not out here competing for space. Um and it it changed who I am, it changed who our ministry who our, you know, what our ministry is, but it gave us all so much peace. And and I I had to I had to confess to my staff, you know, and it and you know, I had to confess publicly, like this is what I've been doing, it's been wrong. And nobody thought it was wrong what I was doing, but it was like God just gave me this like body check, you know, like you you've been chasing the wrong things, you've been chasing influence, but I just need you to chase me. And um I think God does that to us. I think the more we chase him, the smaller we want to be, and the bigger we want him to be. And uh it's really a beautiful thing, but it's it's really uh it's an amazing thing that we get to do to just be a mouthpiece for God, you know? Um like it makes me tear up when I think about it. Just to be in the word and to only speak his voice. Um gosh, what an honor it is, right? That we can proclaim Jesus, that we can be his instrument. Um I mean, just wow, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

What beauty when using you know the Bible, you know, it's always God's voice. Like, you know, if you bring out if you use the Bible, it's um it cuts on all sides. It's always, you know, it's it can always be timely. Like it's like it's it's just such a uh a great way to you know, a great way to pray, a great way to think, a great way to find direction. And then and then praying with it, I think will is you know, and then listening for listening for God's voice, we have to be careful that we hear God's voice, not the enemy's voice, and do checks on it. Um but at the same time, that you know, that's a way of getting direction uh with decisions and just in daily thought. Um so one passage I want to ask you about is the Good Samaritan. And there's a lot of characters in the Good Samaritan. There's the person that was traveling, let's let's let's you know connect her to the woman who was looking for, you know, who got an abortion, let's say. And then there's the robbers, who let's say that's the person who worked at Planned Parenthood and they left her on the side of the road. And then there's the priest, you know, that might be churches that don't engage in this topic. And then there's the other, like uh, there's the Levite, which is like another religious leader, maybe that's a politician in the story, who's not fully engaged, um, or maybe you know doesn't connect to help. And then there's like the Samaritan who is very different than the traveler, um, and but yet decides to help. And I feel like that, and then there's also the innkeeper, who is someone who you know was uh running in a facility who was able to help afterwards and provide medical care. I feel like sometimes you know we're the robber, sometimes we're the the person that was beat up and left on the side, sometimes we're the priest who avoids helping, or the Levite who doesn't get involved and you know walks on the other side of the road. And and and so it's like I think sometimes we're all of these characters, like we've I mean, I don't think we're just one character in the story, but I feel like this story is really helpful for understanding, you know, well, it speaks truth in this scenario of abortion, and and when it comes to people not getting involved, people being injured, people injuring others, people helping, people helping more. I think all of that is represented. What are your thoughts? I know this is a lot, this is probably a big question, but what do you yeah, how does that connect with you know the industry uh that you're you know, the abortion industry and the need for help and the how people are being injured and then left and people are avoiding?

SPEAKER_04 36:14

Yeah, it's a really good analogy, actually. Um I you know, I think that I think people can be all of those characters in the story sometimes. Um, of course, you know, we are called to I think the pro-life movement, uh, you know, as people who love the Lord and people who love women, people who love children, people who love families, um, you know, this work is messy. And uh it's hard work. And but I think God so often he's in the mess. And, you know, I'll just kind of give you an example. One time, and this is not to showcase me, this is to showcase God, but uh one time I was out in front of a facility praying and uh on the sidewalk, and a woman was going in to get an abortion, and I, you know, gently reached out to her before she was going in, and she was flipping me off and cussing me out, and you know, I just said I'm gonna be here all day. So um, if you ever, you know, if you want to come out, just know you can. I'll I'll be out here. And she said she was not interested, and uh in a very colorful way, and uh went in to get her abortion and uh she came out with a man who I, you know, kind of guessed was her partner, her boyfriend. And um she gotten a surgical abortion, it was pretty apparent. She was kind of woozy as she was walking out, and I think it's really important that uh we are not just there on the sidewalk as they enter, but that we remain as they leave. And because that I find is when God can really show up and do a powerful work. And so I was there as she was coming out and she was very wobbly, um, you know, relying on her partner to walk her out to the car. And uh she got into the car. It was hot outside. She got into the car, and uh she was her partner rolled the windows down, and as they were about to back up, she opened the door and she started vomiting. And I wasn't sure if I should reach out to her, you know, she had already told me what she thought of me, but I just very gently I just said I know this is a really tough time for you. I have been there, I've had two abortions, and uh I just I I want you to know I have some information if you know if you want to take it, um we can help. And we're still here for you. And she looked at me and she just burst into tears. And um she said, There's there's no help for me. And I said, Oh, but there is help for you. And I said, God is here right now and he loves you so much, and she came over to where I was standing, and she took the information and she went back to her car, and um she said, I hope someone can't help me, and she got in the car and I really prayed for her that night, and I just thought it's in that brokenness that God can really do a mighty work, and I I think, you know, if I would have been allowed, I mean, I would have gone over there and held her hair back, you know, as she was throwing up, you know, in the parking lot. We can't shy away from someone's brokenness. We can't shy away from the messiness of life. That that's that's when people need us the most. You know, we get calls all the time at our hotline, our love line, hotline, from women who are in, you know, domestic violence situations and they find out they're pregnant and they already have four other children and they're alone. And a lot of people would say, ugh, that's that's too much. Like, I don't know how to handle it, you know. But we can't walk away from those women. Like, are we for life? Are we for families or are we not? You know, those are the situations where they're hard and they feel overwhelming. And sometimes we feel like, how can we help? But that's when we pray and we network and we reach out to others. The pro-life community is huge, it's vast, and and God has every resource that we need. We just have to look and we have to find it. And we have to come together and say, how can we help this woman and her family? How can we help this woman and her child? Whatever a woman needs, I mean, when women call our hotline and they say, I have an abortion scheduled, I think I need to have an abortion, I want an abortion. Our question is, what will get you to cancel that appointment? What can we do so that you will cancel that appointment? And whatever it is, whatever it is, we will do it. You know, if it's I'm four months behind on my rent and I'm about to be homeless, I'm telling you, I will find the money to pay that rent. I will find the money. If she is homeless, I will find her a home so that she can deliver her baby in safely. Whatever it is, we cannot allow money or resources or a home or a car or insurance or whatever it is, support, concerns about breastfeeding, whatever it is, we cannot allow that to be the reason that a child is murdered. We have every resource available that we need. We just have to find it and we have to make it available to these women, and we have to speak truth to them. You know, we have to give them the truth. And we have when we say we are going to support you, we have to mean it. And we have to actually be with them and do life with them and live life with them. Fourteen years ago, a woman emailed me and said, I don't want to have an abortion, but I feel like I don't have any other choice. And I said, if you will not have this abortion, I will live life with you for the rest of your life. I will be with you every step of the way for the rest of your life. And she chose life, and her son is 14 and starting high school this next year, and we are still in close communication, and I love it. Her and I love her son, and she just had another baby, a little girl. That's what it means to live life with people, to love them and to help them and to accompany them. And that's what we have to do as pro-lifers. We have to love people and we have to mean it.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

Wow. Yeah, because I I feel like you you you flip the narrative of I'm alone to I am supported. I am, yeah, there's someone here who is supporting what I need to do what's right. Wow, that's such a powerful testimony.

SPEAKER_04 44:39

Yeah. Well, I mean, that's what it is. I mean, God says He will never leave us. And we are to be, as Christians, we are to be representatives of Christ, right? To be a Christian is to follow Christ and to love like him. I mean, I'll never be able to actually love like Christ. I don't have that ability, right? Um, I don't have that sort of omnipotent, endless ability to love like he loves, right? But that's what I'm trying to do. I'm I'm trying to love like he loves. I'm that's I'm doing what I can. And and Jesus is the ultimate uh person who he's the ultimate uh image of accompaniment. And that's what we have to do. We can't give up on people. We can't say we're going to do something and then leave them. And even when it's hard, even when it's tough, that door still has to be open.

SPEAKER_03 45:53

Yeah. Well, as an image bearer of God, I think you do reflect Christ. And and as someone with the Holy Spirit inside of you, you might be more you might be like a uh a a broken, you know, a cracked vase where the light can shine through the cracks. Um, but yeah, I mean, essentially I think we reflect and we get we point people towards Jesus. I think that's a a good a good example of how that works. Um tell us more about Unthinkable. Who who's the primary audience that you made Unthinkable for? Like if you had to pick out of all the people who might see it, who who is like what's the um you know what what or what message do you want someone to hear when they see Unthinkable? Like, what's the overarching message?

SPEAKER_04 46:43

Well, I mean, I would love for people who support abortion to see it. Um, I would love for them to see it and and really challenge themselves, you know, to to say, like, is this really okay? You know, is it really acceptable for of a viable child to be born in a toilet and drowned to death? Like, is that really acceptable for women's health care? Is that women's health care? Um you know, is it uh acceptable that a child is born alive in a clinic and then stabbed in the heart with a scalpel? Is is that when they say women's health care, is that what they mean? Um when they say women's health care, do they mean a woman bleeding to death in her hotel room alone? Um I I hope that people who support abortion will um will, you know, even if they watch it as a critic, I hope they will watch it. And I hope they will have the courage to watch it and and to know that these stories are real and that these women are putting their names and faces on it because they are real. Um, these aren't fake stories, you know, that are made up anonymously, right? Um, these women did work there, they did experience this, they did see it. And um, you know, there's a story of a woman who's um they start the clinic started her abortion and then send her out to the waiting room, and she delivered a third trimester baby in the waiting room, uh, you know, in front of all the patients that were waiting. Like, is that okay? Do they think that's okay? Um, but I also hope that that people who are pro-life will watch it and will understand the uh just the the uh uh uh deplorable things that are happening inside the clinic. I think pro-lifers, you know, a lot of them they, you know, they say, oh, abortion's bad. Oh, abortion is it's terrible. Like it's uh something that we shouldn't do. But it's kind of in the abstract for most people, you know. They they think about abortion and they think it's bad and they think it shouldn't happen, but we're really bringing it in front of their face and saying, yeah, it's it's worse than bad. It's it's worse than than uh scary, you know. It's it's worse. I hear people Bobby Kennedy says abortion is a tragedy. It's worse than a tragedy. This is satanic, it is demonic, it's literally the worst thing you've ever heard. That's what's happening inside of the that's why we named it unthinkable. A lot of people say, Oh, you named it unthinkable because you want abortion to be unthinkable. No. We named it unthinkable because these are the most unthinkable things you could ever imagine. And they're happening inside of abortion clinics in your community. They're happening inside of abortion clinics right down the street from you. And I want people to understand just how abnormal abortion is. We're gonna highlight some of these things in the in the documentary, but 95% of the women who come to our ministry have diagnosable PTSD. 38% of the women who come through our ministry have suicidal ideation after they leave the industry. 17% of them attempt suicide. That that is not normal. Um, there's no other field in the world that has that sort of suicidal ideation rate. Uh it's unheard of because that's how abnormal abortion is. Because it's not normal to piece body parts together in your daily work. Uh, it's not normal to watch a baby being born alive and killed. None of none of these things that are happening inside of the abortion industry are normal. And so those sorts of things need to be exposed. And we're not exposing them, we're not saying those numbers because the abortion because we think the abortion workers are victims. We're not. We chose the work and we're doing it every day and we're getting a paycheck from it. We're not saying it because we're victims. We're not. We're perpetrators. Um, but we're saying it so that people will understand just how abnormal abortion is, and how there is a human cost to abortion. And there are so many people whose lives, you know, whose whose life is is part of that human cost, you know, and and the human cost is the baby, the human cost is the the woman who's dehumanized through the process, who is who has murdered their child, and part of the human cost is also the abortion worker who is a perpetrator, but also is is traumatized by the work that they have chosen to do. And uh, and so part of that we need to flesh that out as well. And so we do that in the documentary.

SPEAKER_03 53:00

Wow, yeah. Uh the only other industry that comes close would be the other field that abortion clinics take on, which is uh, well, hormone blockers, hormone ads, and the transgender um uh surgeries. So, about almost two years ago, I went to every abortion clinic website I could find to research their keywords as an SEO research project. And after going to every abortion clinic website I could find, and like Planned Parenthood was just one out of like 160 that I went to, I found myself thinking, what did I just witness? You're going to every single one. It was, and some of the some of my takeaways was about two-thirds of the abortion clinic websites at that time were offering some level of like hormone block, hormone ad or transgender surgery. And and I defined an abortion clinic as one that would provide a surgical or medication-based abortion. And and a lot of these abortion clinics I went to were you know for like a single county, like a lot of them were small single location places. Um, but a lot of those would offer like three things, and it was abortion, the transgender service, and then maybe one thing that was more normal. And and that was a lot of them just offered three things. Like that was very common. Um, but I feel like the transgender piece essentially is preventing someone from essentially it's sterilizing someone's ability to have children in the future. It also has an increased rate of uh suicide, and it comes really close to um you know being as terrible as abortion uh when it comes to like a a thing. And the and the people that would do that, you know, essentially it's like the same caliber or same yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:56

So it all it's all at the same yeah, it's all at the same route, right?

SPEAKER_03 55:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:00

So the LGBT agenda and the pro-abortion agenda, there, that that abortion lobby, they're all very enmeshed. And uh the I that was true when I worked there as well. And that that's really uh not surprising because both of those movements are profoundly anti-God and they are profoundly anti-life. So, you know, you've got when I worked at Planned Parenthood 15 years ago, 25% of our employee population identified as LGBT. That was 15 years ago. You can imagine how many it is now, it's probably at least half. So, you know, you've got someone whose sexual act will never end in procreation, telling a woman sitting in front of them who is currently pregnant to destroy the life within them. That is so demonic. And it is part of the plan, right? That's part of Satan's plan to increase homosexual activity so as to not procreate, so as to not reproduce, and to end the lives uh within the womb of women who are pregnant. So it's all it's all part of Satan's like population control, um, which is all part of, you know, people like Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, George Soros. That's why they give to these organizations because they believe in population control, which is purely satanic. Um, you know, it's purely demonic. And this was all written about in 1969 uh in the Yafee memo. They wanted to uh increase homosexuality, they wanted to put uh fertility agents uh in the water uh to decrease population, which we already see that that we know that's happening uh through birth control. Birth control hormones are in our water. Um we we know that we see that, and there's been many, many uh research studies done on that. Uh, there are lakes and ponds where the fish in those lakes and ponds have both sets of sexual reproductive organs. And when they test the water, it's because there's such a high rate of uh birth control hormones in the water. So we look around and we go, why are boys so effeminate today? Uh, well, yeah, why are they so effeminate? Well, look at look at the hormones uh that are you know unintentionally given to them. Uh look at how many women are breastfeeding their sons while they're taking hormones, while they're taking birth control. Uh, why are our boys so effeminate? Uh, I can't imagine. We're giving them estrogen from the moment that they come out of the womb. Uh, and then we wonder why they're so effeminate. Uh it's, I mean, it can't really be a surprise. So we're, I mean, we're doing this to our sons, we're doing this to our children. Why are breast cancer rates so high? Well, I can't imagine. There's birth control agents everywhere in our water and our food, uh, in the ground. It's everywhere. And this was all, this was all devised. I mean, people, it sounds like a conspiracy theory, but it's not. I mean, anybody can Google uh the Yaffey memo, J A F F E, and look at it. It was put out um in 1969, even before Roe was passed. This was all part of the depopulation agenda, and it was all funded by Planned Parenthood.

SPEAKER_03 58:58

Wow. So so last year I I had an interview with a ex-Satanist uh, I forget the word, ex-Satanist priest or ex-satanist something, and he was sharing about how abortion is part of you know that satanic space. And it was in the podcast was so graphic that I ended up putting up a five-minute version saying if you really want to hear this, please talk to your pastor or priest and ask for you know access and then please agree to watch it, you know, with you know with your pastor or priest as well, so you have someone to support you because it's it's like the graphic level of I can't just publish it publicly without you know knowing that the people that have watched this are because it was really bad. Like it was it was so bad. Um I I I wish I didn't have to listen to it with so bad. Like it was just it was off the charts bad. Like that's the way to describe that, you know, that descriptive the graphic language she used was unbelievably bad. It didn't take long to describe it, it was but it was just horrific at the at the worst level possible. That's how I would describe it.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:09

Yeah. I mean, uh abortion is a satanic sacrifice. So you know, whether, and that's the thing. I mean, and it is a sacrifice. So whether or not the woman recognizes it as a satanic sacrifice, it doesn't matter. Satan doesn't care, like he doesn't care if she is, you know, in the room doing this satanic ritual or not. Certainly Satanists are, right? Uh, when they do their little coven things and all this kind of stuff. Certainly they are, but it doesn't matter to Satan really if that's happening or not, because abortion just in itself, in its existence, is a satanic ritual. Every time it happens, every time innocent blood is spilled, uh you know, for like these altars we're talking about, altar of selfishness, uh, altar of greed, altar, you know, all these things, Satan rejoices, hell rejoices, uh, the enemy rejoices. So it doesn't matter if the woman knows if she's if she's you know willingly doing it for Satan. It doesn't know if she, it doesn't matter if she herself professes to be a Christian, it doesn't matter if she herself professes to be a Satanist. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter to Satan because abortion in itself is demonic. It is a demonic ritual at its root. And and and Satan in hell rejoices at uh at the death of of innocence. But yes, I mean that yes, certainly, Satanists um are using aborted babies and and they are doing rituals and and and things with with children.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:22

Yeah. Well, Abby, I I have really enjoyed you being on this podcast. Do you have any final thoughts? And or yeah, near the here near the end of this podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:33

You know, I would just tell people to continue the race. This is a um this is a cross-country race, not a sprint. Um, so we're we're in it for the long haul. Take breaks when you need to. Um, you know, don't grow so weary that you uh become an an enemy to the good. Sometimes we all need a break. Sometimes we all need to, you know, tap out and let our partners take over, and that's okay. This is a tough battle. It is a tough battle. And even Jesus took time to rest. And uh, and so in this, in this long cross-country race, sometimes we need a we need to rest, and that's okay. And I think sometimes pro-lifers need to hear that. Uh, it's okay to take a little sabbatical if you need to. Um, it's okay to rest and come back in fighting shape again. And um, and you know, just know that you're that what you do for the unborn, what you do for their mothers, it matters. Even if you don't, you may not see the fruits of your labor always. Certainly when I go out in front of an abortion facility and I'm cussed out all day, and you know, people are giving me the finger all day, uh, and all this. I'm I I may be tempted to walk away and go, what was even the point of me being out there, right? Uh, but that may be the temptation because that's what the enemy wants me to believe. That's what the enemy wants all of us to believe, that we are ineffective, uh, that our our good works mean nothing, right? Um, but it does matter. What we do, every prayer that we pray, nothing returns void. And God is doing good through all of our works, through all of our prayers. We must remain steadfast. And uh we, you know, we may not see the return on earth, but we will see the return in glory. And so just keep running the race. Um stay merciful, stay soft-hearted. Um, you know, when we become hard-hearted, that's when we know we need a rest. And um, I have taken rest uh before, and it's it's a good thing to do. Um, remember that activists need healing as well. And so remember to heal, you know, heal within the Lord and stay active in reading your scripture. That is how the Lord speaks to us each and every day. People, I hear that all the time. God speaks to, like you say, God speaks to you all the time. I never hear from the Lord. And I'm like, well, are you reading your Bible? Because that's how God speaks to us. Uh that's how He's able to speak to us uh all the time. And so stay in the scripture. God is ready to speak to you. And uh He does it through His Word.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:52

Hmm, that's so good. And yeah, well and well, as you as you again we're wrapping up, but so with your When you go out on the sidewalk, would you often ask someone to pray for you or pray during that time? How many people would be praying when you know, for is it like a two to one ratio or a one-to-one ratio? How would you describe the number of people praying compared to those on the sidewalk?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:15

Sometimes it's just one to one, but I will not go out if I don't have someone praying specifically for me. Um when I'm because it's it's really you're ineffective. Uh, I find if you don't have someone, you know, calling out to the heavens for you. Um because of course I'm prayerful when I'm on the sidewalk, uh, but I I need someone really calling down heaven when I am out there and calling for my protection as well. Um, and so I always try to go out there with, you know, with a buddy, but that's not always possible because if I'm in a if I'm in a town, you know, if I'm speaking somewhere or something and there's an abortion clinic there and I have time, I'll just swing by. Um, but I will, you know, call someone, I'll call my husband, I'll call a friend, I'll call someone on my staff and say, hey, I'm going out to a clinic. I I need you to stop what you're doing and pray for me until I call you and tell you I'm leaving. And uh that's that is the most important thing that we can do for one another is pray for each other. And uh my mom when I was working at Planned Parenthood uh, you know, my parents prayed for me daily. And uh now there will be other parents that will go to my parents and look for, you know, advice on their children who have, you know, left the faith or they're you know kind of wayward or something. And my mom, they'll say, you know, what can we do besides pray? You know, we feel like all we can do is pray. And my mom's like, it's not all you can do, it's everything you can do. It's the best thing you can do, it's the most powerful thing you can do is to pray for your children, to pray for those in need. It's not just like something you can do. It's everything. It's it's the best thing, it's the very best thing you can do. So don't see it as some small thing. It's the biggest thing. And uh, and so I I say that all the time. We we see it as like well, I guess I can just pray for them, you know? And uh, but man, concentrated daily prayer for a specific person praying for them by name, man. That is that is uh one of the most that is that is one of the best gifts that I can receive from someone.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:56

Yeah, no, I agree completely. That makes so much sense. And and I I like how you said that it, you know, it's it's ineffective if you went out without prayer, but with prayer, it's it's it goes from being it goes it's everything. Like it's it's such a key critical piece to being effective and and to having fruit.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:15

And let me tell you this, Jacob, which this is crazy. But every time I have gone, and this is totally true. I call my husband my lucky penny because every time my husband would never feel comfortable being on the sidewalk and reaching out to someone, but I have never been on the sidewalk with my husband where I have not had a turnaway from a woman having an abortion. Never in my life. Every time in the past 15 years, I have been out on the sidewalk with my husband praying for me, I have always had a turnaway every single time. So our spouses praying for us is so incredibly powerful. A husband praying for his wife intentionally and a wife praying for her husband is is some, I believe, some of the most powerful prayers that we can offer. And so when my husband, I'm always like, please come out to me with please come out with me to the clinic, uh, because I know his prayers are so powerful for me uh when I'm praying and when I'm when I'm sidewalk counseling.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:30

Yeah, my my wife, uh Heather, um, has prayed for me when I would when I was going out sidewalk counseling, and yeah, it was just amazing to see how how that time was so well spent. And we would hand out several gift bags, and we were and we had one of the local privacy clinics, you know, call us. I think it was like five hours later after doing a gift bag idea, saying, say someone someone came in with a gift bag and it looks like you're connected to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:01

It's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:02

Yeah, so like that was like, yeah, we would, but my wife Heather, she's not the one to like talk to the woman walking in or the person walking in, but with her praying, I had I had like confidence, I had the wherewithal, I had staying power. And I did go out once without someone praying, and I think I lasted like 15 minutes. But with Heather praying or someone else praying, I would have what it took to be out there for two hours, and it was just a big, big difference.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:31

Yeah, absolutely. Prayer matters, prayers everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:35

Well, uh, so before I ask you to pray to wrap up the podcast, would you what do we expect to be able to watch Unthinkable? Like, is that coming out in a what month might that be?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:46

Yeah, so we're not sure exactly the month, but we know it will be out before the end of the year. So we are working feverishly to uh to get the final cut and um to get a wrap on the film. So maybe November, December. So it will be out before the end of the year.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:05

Awesome. Yeah, exciting. I'm looking forward to it. Um so Abby, thank you so much for being on here. Would you wrap this up with a prayer with the expectation or hope that those who are listening will join in as they listen and as you pray?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:21

Yes, of course. Of course I will. Thank you for having me on, Jacob. All right. Come, Holy Spirit. Father in heaven, we thank you so much for this time together where we can proclaim your truth, God, the the only truth. We thank you for the gift of today, the gift of our families, the gift of this movement. We thank you that there are so many who are willing to sacrifice their time, their gifts, their talents, to save lives, to reach out to those in need. We ask, Father, that those who may be currently in the valley of decision, that you would bring someone alongside them to shelter them, to embrace them, to show them your truth, to love them with your heart and to open their mind, so that the scales would fall from their eyes and that they would be able to see the life in their womb as you see that precious life. We ask that you be with anyone who has already made the decision for abortion, who may be hurting, who may be struggling, who may be feeling that they are not worthy of mercy. We ask that you come in with God and that you are able to heal the brokenness of their heart. That you would show them your mighty and amazing power, that you would heal all the cracks of their heart, that you would piece their heart back together with your love. That we ask special protection for those who are in front of these abortion facilities where the killing is happening. We ask for their perseverance that they would feel strong, that they would feel they would know how important their work is. They would keep running the race. That is where the battle is. The battle is in the hearts and minds of these women, but also in the hearts and minds of men, in the hearts and minds of everyone in our very broken society. We ask for a renewal, a revival in our churches. That you would speak directly into the hearts and minds of our pastors, specifically those who do not feel like they have the courage to speak about life. We ask that you would give them a renewed sense of power and a clearness in their mind, a clarity in their mind. That they would they would speak with such conviction we ask that you would give them an urgency, a fire in their soul. That they they would not be able to not speak about these children, these women. We are sorry. We are sorry for our apathy. Any time that we have been silent when we should have spoken up we repent. I repent for any time where I have been silent, when I should have stood up for you for life. God, we would ask that as a nation that we turn away from our sinfulness and that we run to you. We would ask that these abortion facilities be shuttered, that every single one of them be closed. And that every person, every man and woman who is participating in this evil, that they fall to their knees and that they run into your embrace so that they can live in eternity with you. We love you, God, we love you. And we pray that our words will only be your words, and that we would speak life to everyone that we meet, and that we would never be scared to share how your love has impacted us, and that we would never be scared to share the gospel. Thank you for this day, and please guide, lead, and direct us as we continue on. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:54

Amen. God, I also want to pray that any any church, any priest, any Levite, any leader who has walked by that person who was who is bloodied and on the side of the road, um, would come back, would turn around and see the Samaritan, the prince clinic, the person who is offering aid, and will come back and help. Help bring that bring that person who has been injured to to the innkeeper. I just prayed this in your name, Jesus. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:30

Amen. There's a stranger in the fire, shining brighter than in the flames, and I know he wasn't there before Well and I tried that.