SPEAKER_00 5:04

Welcome to the Pro Life Team Podcast. I'm Jacob Barr, and I'm here with Father Frank Pavone and Roland Warren. And today we're yeah, Father Frank's going to be interviewing Roland. So uh yeah, welcome guys. Yeah. Well thank you.

SPEAKER_05 5:18

Thank you, Jacob. And uh thank you, Roland, for being here. I mean, we've uh we've known each other for a long time, we've interacted in many, many arenas, and uh boy, I I I think if if our viewers are not already aware of CareNet, they've certainly uh missed something big within our movement. And uh thank you for the uh the leadership uh you've uh shown there. We'll explain it, of course, to our viewers uh in more detail in just a moment. But I just wanted to preface our conversation by saying that uh I personally and the and the ministry that we run, Priest for Life, have had a very uh long and fruitful relationship with Karenet. Going back to the early 90s, I remember uh Guy Condon and uh the close relationship we had with him, and sadly we we lost him all too soon. Um but uh and then since since him, you know, all the other leaders that preceded you, uh and then of course with you in this position, uh there are a lot of exciting things I want to ask you about because of course uh you know you have uh graciously let me into the circle of various uh projects you've done, like church outreach in particular. I want to talk about the the uh the concept of uh you know fullness of of of life that the Lord uh brings us, not just life, but the fullness of life and all these other things that that you have um pioneered. Uh obviously the role of fathers. We're gonna talk about all of that. But why don't we start in prayer and uh ask the Lord to bless our conversation and our work? Father, thank you. You are the source of life, uh, you are the source of salvation. You have sent your son into the world as the one who has come to bring us life and life to the full. We thank you, Lord God, that not only are you saving lives through the various uh missions and ministries that you call us to, but you are enriching us with life eternal. Uh, you are not only asking us to make this earthly journey, you are giving us a place in your heavenly kingdom. Uh, you are not only asking us to stop the shedding of blood, you are asking us to stop the advance of sin and to bring people in uh to the fullness of your love. And so, Lord, bless that mission today, bless our understanding of that mission, and and continue to bless our collaboration and unity with one another to carry it out. Lord, it is all about you and our faithfulness to you, and so we ask you to bless us this day and pour out on us your spirit for the fullness of life. We pray in Jesus' name. Amen. Um Roland, give us give us a little bit about your background and especially your work uh prior to coming to Kernet uh on the uh the key and important theme of fatherhood uh in our society and in our nation.

SPEAKER_06 8:09

Great. Well, again, thank you very much. I appreciate uh being being with you today. Yeah, I mean I kind of got uh involved in the life issue uh through a fatherhood uh uh connection. If you I was president of National Fatherhood Initiative organization that um uh based started in in Gaethersburg, uh Maryland, and uh then moved to Germantown, Maryland, and I was uh living up in Philadelphia, was on the board for a number of years, and then uh uh got asked by the guy who founded a guy named Don Everly if I would be willing to come and be a part of that work and did was president there for about 12 years, and so the focus there was on helping turn the hearts of fathers to their kids. It wasn't a Christian organization, but it was uh focused on the what I call the sacred mission of turning the hearts of fathers to their kids. And so uh in in that role, um got a connection with with Kenneth and the broader work of the pregnancy centers because we had a a perspective of that, you know, if you want to sort of change how the nation views about the life issue, you know, you need to find organizations uh that are at the nexus of children and family. And I had 12 people and I wasn't Jesus. And I'd be like, well, what do you do? It's like partnership. So so we started partnering with organizations that were at the nexus of children and family, and one of those places was the pregnancy center world. And so you know, I got involved with with with uh with CareNet that way, starting a project here to add fatherhood resources and ultrasounds to pregnancy centers. And had a donor that was uh uh committed to that and that grew over time and build the relationship. And God called me from the National Fatherhood Initiative to CareNet in the role that I'm in now, and so I brought that perspective uh to uh to care net is the centrality and importance of fathers. I've learned a lot more about it since uh since my national fatherhood initiative today, but there's a spin diagram that connects the fatherhood issue and the life uh to the life issue and the marriage issue to the life issue and the family formation issue to the life issue, and so uh we have sort of that holistic way of kind of thinking about the issue, which we can talk about a bit more. But yeah, holistic I'm sorry, go ahead. No, I that that's kind of the fatherhood connection, how God used that to to bring me here.

SPEAKER_05 10:22

I've seen that diagram, it's very, very instructive. And uh uh Roland, let me let me uh put a perspective forward to you and get your your your comment on it. Um it seems to me that the whatever you want to call them, the pro-abortion movement, the radical left, you know, there's a there's a movement in our society that's intent on destroying the family, destroying marriage, destroying fatherhood and motherhood, and destroying human life. And it seems to me that one of their key strategic um uh uh uh uh modalities is divide, divide, divide everyone from each other, right? And so I think one of the ways this is manifest is when the other side, when they're talking about abortion, constantly present it as this is a woman's issue, woman's issue, to the point where they say, you don't have a uterus, you don't have an opinion, you can't speak about this as a man, right? And sometimes I've even seen, as I'm sure you have, although I think it's kind of isolated, but it's there. Sometimes our movement has fallen into the trap of saying, oh, we've just got to present this as a woman's issue. You know, I've even been to press conferences where, you know, they said, Oh, only women are gonna speak, you know, I'm not gonna have any men speaking. Say, so wait a second, you know, I I'm in the work of trying to get the clergy to speak up of this about this, and you know, not exclusively, but most clergy are men, right? And then you got the fathers saying, Oh, but it's your choice, you know, and then it isolates the woman instead of helping her. Is this not the strategy of the other side to say, oh no, no, no, this is just the woman's issue? Because what they're really trying to do is not to affirm women, but to exclude the powerful, essential role of the presence and support of that man.

SPEAKER_06 12:05

Yeah. No, it's absolutely uh it's one of Satan's devices. Uh he divides. And you know, kind of where I mean, to me, where I sort of the insight I feel like God gave me on this was uh was really kind of thinking about the life issue in terms of where the force uh the first abortion actually took place. Where's the first abortion? Well, abortion is basically a rejection of vulnerable life, like it's it's a rejection of life, but it's also a declaration that I know what's better for my life, your life, than God is. And the first place that you actually see that is in the garden where Eve says, My fruit, my choice. In other words, my body is my choice. And she takes that that fruit in her, and then Adam is silent. So this movement, the the kind of pro-choice movement, has basically the same dynamic. Now, uh, and then of course she gives it an E. You know, she thinks that this that that this is I mean, they think that this is kind of a separate issue, but it's all interconnected. And so from my standpoint, that's really what they're modeling after. Because in the garden, what you found was they they were in unity and community. Unity and community in the Godhead, right? The Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and unity and community between Adam and Eve, and they're in the the family of marriage, unity and community. And what what sin did is it caused antipathy and and and autonomy. So you replace the unity and community with antipathy and autonomy, which is basically my body, my choice. Now, when you do that, we when you when you do that, it creates antipathy between a woman and a man, between a man and the woman, and between the two created creatures with the God. And the whole movement is their whole movement is built on that because it's based on that whole notion of of uh the whole notion of sin that happened in the garden. And you know, the attack in in the garden was not an attack on an individual, it was an attack on the family. Because remember, Adam and Eve, they were a husband and wife in the garden. And so it was an attack on the garden, it was an attack on God's design for family, right? And then that that created the the rest there. So you know it it's it's like you know, Ephesians, you know, 6, 11 through 20 says that our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against rulers, against powers, against authorities of this dark world and spiritual forces in the heavenly realm. It truly is. So it you should like it there, it's the same playbook that Satan used in the garden that he uses here. Now, when you unpack that and you see the the ramifications of that in terms of how it plays into the abortion issue. You know, I I started when I first came here with a fatherhood perspective, I I really started with the the biblical narrative that you see in the birth of Christ, which is the most celebrated unplanned pregnancy in human history. Like from Mary's perspective, this pregnancy was unplanned. She had hopes and dreams and aspirations for a life that did not include a child at this time, and in this way, the angel comes to her and says, You will conceive and bear a child, right? You will conceive and bear a child. Now, Mary had all the uncertainty that any woman would have in an abortion clinic or taking a pregnancy test or holding on an abortion pill. She's like, She's uncertain. But what does she do in that moment? She doesn't focus on the uncertainty of what she doesn't know, she focuses on the certainty of what she does. There's a life growing inside of me, and it's not a life worth sacrificing, but a life worth sacrificing for. And what does she say? Let it be on to me as you say, in other words, she chooses life. Now, for folk on the pro-choice side, they're like, well, this is just about Mary and this life, if you will, or not life, depending on how you define it. But on the pro-life side, you can fall into the same trap because what did God do to make sure that Mary's unplanned pregnancy wasn't a crisis pregnancy? He's in an angel to Joseph. And Joseph was a man, right? And he had a plan. And his plan was to divorce her quietly. In other words, what you see, like Mary got an angel, Joseph got an angel. Joseph didn't get like a smurf or a gnome or something else. He got an angel too. But he got called in his humanity in the role that he would play. Remember, it's all going back to God's design for family, which is reflected in the garden. So he didn't, God didn't have to bring Joseph in. Anyone was fully equipped to be able to walk this world as a single with a single mother. It's clearly was Christ. But God has a design. And so he had this whole perfect construct that accomplished his purpose to bring the Savior into the world without violating his principle. And it was that. It was a marriage that had not been consummated. So the sanctity of marriage and family, which you see in the in the garden, and then you see what? The sanctity of life. Why? Because the first thing the angel told Joseph to do was do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife. In other words, affirming the sanctity of marriage and family even before he told him who Jesus was, what the sanctity of life. And that on the pro-life side, that's where you can get separated. Now, practically, how does that play out? Well, you look at the data, the data. 87% of the women that have abortions are unmarried. 87% of the women that have abortions are unmarried. So if you want to build a whole movement and your focus is on saving babies, you can't do it without the sanctity of marriage and family. And Satan knew that. That's why he attacked the family in the garden. Right. So you have the same thing where you had unity and community in God's design. The mother and the child in unity and community. The father, the mother, and and the child in unity and community as reflected in marriage. And all of them connected to the Father, in you the Son and the Holy Spirit in unity and community. Abortion attacks that perspective. So if you have this view as a pro-life person that there's not a role for men, you need to have a conversation with God. Yes, yes. Because he went out of his way to make sure that Joseph was involved and had a very central role in what? The bringing the Christ child into the world that he has a design for family. Now, I'll I'll just make one last point and I'll shut up on that. This to me, I think we start where you start to lose your perspective, I think, on this, if you're a polite person and pregnant towards that, is that we're really trying to answer what I call the central question. And it's basically this if a woman came to you and she's facing an unplanned pregnancy and you could change everything except the fact that she's pregnant, what would you want for her? What should you want for her? And especially as a Christian, what should you want for her? And you say, Well, I just wanted to have a baby. Really? That's it. I'm exactly what about the guy? Well, he's not a great guy. But you can change that. Like you start clicking through and you're going, Yeah, I want to have a baby. Yeah. And the guy, you know what? I want him to be a husband to her and a father to the child growing inside of her. And for that child to be raised, right, in the fear and admonition of the Lord. In other words, to be a Christ follower, okay? And then I'd want that family what connected to the local church, the local parish, to be disciples who make disciples who live and love like Jesus. That's what you want. Well, is that what you're solving for? Because you can't get there without engaging men. You can't get there without God's design for a family, right? And when in Isaiah 7 14, when it says that a virgin would concede and bear a child, that's the word of God. God comes to Mary and He's answering the central question, and He's locked Himself in with His Word. And He can change everything except the fact that He's pregnant. And what does He do? He creates a disciple-making chapter. See, so it's all there in the first chapter of the first book of the New Testament, in the birth of Christ. You see God's design for family clearly laid out a father and mother united in marriage, loving each other, loving their child, and loving God. And as Christians in this movement, we should be focused on all that. That's the higher, that's the high idea, and we should strive for that in terms of what we communicate and articulate, because actually, guess what? It ends abortion when you do that. And that's why the other side don't want the guy involved. They want him sitting in the car, they want him someplace else, because they know what we know, which is he's the most influential in her decision to abort. We did a national survey of women who had abortions, and we asked them who was the most influential in her decision to abort. Guess who she said? The guy who got her pregnant? We did the same survey with men who had participated in abortion. We asked them who was the most influential in the abortion of the women that you got pregnant. And he says, I was. So here's the women who have the abortions, and the men who participate both say he's the most influential. She knew that. Satan knew that all the way back in the garden. That's why Adam he needed Adam to be silent. Her fruit, her choice, her body, her choice, her pill, her choice. It's nothing new under the sun. It's the same perspective, and it starts where it always begins, which is in the pit of hell with Satan. It it is a it's a spiritual issue that has that has a physical manifestation in in terms of what we're looking at. And that's why the the church, the parac, that's why the church must lead on this issue.

SPEAKER_05 21:05

Exactly. Thanks for laying that out. You know, you and I have been in many strategy meetings and pro life. That was a short answer to a very that was a short answer to a very Yeah, yeah. No, that's perfect because the answer to a very short question. Which is my yeah. Well, we think about pro-life strategy, right? God has laid out the strategy, and he has his design, and it's in his word, and you've laid it out beautifully. Uh, for those that are just joining us, of course, this is Jacob Barr's uh uh ProLife Team podcast. Jacob has brought us together today with Roland Warren, and he's somebody, friends, that you should know about. He leads CareNet, and we're gonna learn a little bit more about CareNet here in just a moment. Um, and it is my pleasure to be uh uh interviewing him here this afternoon. Uh uh Roland, one of the things that that everything that you were saying brought to my mind a memory of one of the many times I've been uh praying and sidewalk counseling out in front of abortion mills. And there was a pastor uh preaching out there one day, um, and he was he was shouting out, he was saying, Adam, Adam. And he was preaching to the men that were like you referenced a moment ago, sitting in their cars. And he said, Adam, you gotta go in there. Go in there and care for that woman and care for that baby. Go in there, Adam. You know, and it was a beautiful, it stuck with me ever since. It was years and years ago, because that cry of Adam, please step up to the plate, fulfill your God-given role. It really summarizes everything that you're saying here. And what I'd like to do here for a moment, before I again I want you to share with our audience a little bit more detail about CARENAP, but let's be very practical here for a moment and ask this question. Let me get you an example from my ministry. We had for a long time when the ministry first started on our response envelopes, you know, when we send out our mailings, you know, help us to help more moms and babies. And I looked at that when I when I took over the organization, I looked at that and said, you know, we got to make one little change there. Help us to help more moms, dads, and babies. Now, a lot of the artwork that'll be on a lot of the brochures that we hand out at the pregnancy centers or ads that are done in pro in newspapers or billboards, what'll you see there? You'll see a mother holding a baby. Fine, beautiful, yes, but where's the dad? So I think there's things we can do, whether it's putting the word dads or fathers on a on a little slogan or or the images that we're putting forth in our literature or a broadcast or social media post, got the mom and the baby. Well, yeah, but get that dad in there. What are some of the, again, on this very concrete practical level, whether it's a pro-life group, uh a pregnancy center, a newsletter stuff, give us some guidance here. And like everything that you've just been saying, how do we, how do we make the rubber hit the road and really, really get this into the hearts and minds of people?

SPEAKER_06 23:54

Yeah, no, it really is. I mean, it really is an excellent point that you're making. I think that is. I love the the call of Adam, you know. And by the way, what that pastor was doing was the same thing that God did in the garden. Remember, when he when he God came moving, what did he say? He didn't say, Eve, where are you? He said, Adam, where are you? Yes. Adam, where are you? And my view is for every pregnancy center, you should be saying, Adam, where are you? Where are you? Right? Because you have a responsibility, you're part of this, you're connected to this, right? You have a role to play here in God in God's design. Well, uh, from a practical standpoint, a lot of it really came from when I was with National Fatherhood Initiative. We started that initiative to put fatherhood resources and um and uh ultrasounds into pregnancy centers. So we just kind of frankly, when I came to Carinet, we started to build that in. I I can't remember the percentage of pregnancy centers uh in our network that had anything for fathers when I started. I think it was, you know, certainly in the low 20s, if if that. And frankly, a lot of that had started with the work that we had st done with uh with Carinet uh prior to becoming. But now we're up to close to 80% of our pregnancy centers have some kind of resources for fathers, all the way up to having client advocates who are there so that when she comes in that he that he comes in and we have people to work with him directly. And we're again, because we're focused on answering that central question, right? And and that central question cannot be answered without him. But a lot of it, frankly, is you know, you you think about this just sort of like just maybe a little poetically. Like so when a baby is born, right, that whole interaction really is between the mother and the baby, and that's what's there, right? That's the connection. So you've got to focus there. But once the baby is born, sh the mother invites the father into that. And you see these wonderful pictures of the mother holding the baby and the father part of that, right? Yeah. So there's an invitation piece, which is very, very different than what happens with moms. One of the jokes I tell often when I speak is I say, I've never met a woman who gave birth to a child and said, Whose baby is that? Yeah, right. I mean, I know we can do some crazy stuff nowadays, but there's never like, wait, whose baby is that? It just can't just came out of her. Whose baby is that? Now, the guy sitting next to her, like he might be saying, Whose baby is that? Right? So, so there's a there's a part of that men have to like be engaged in a way that's very, very different. And that's how with the pregnancy center work. The fact of the matter is, a woman is going somewhere. Like she can't help but go somewhere. She either going to abortion killing, she's going to a birthing center, she's going somewhere. She can't just quote ignore it. Something's gonna happen. But a father, a man absolutely can, right? Fatherhood for men begins in your mind. You start thinking as a as a as a father, right? That's a that's a mental process that becomes a physical reality. So a big part of what we do at our pregnancy centers now is we have a resource which we developed called Dr. Dad, which is designed to help fathers of infants and toddlers. And you can actually get it, even if you're not connected to a pregnancy center, you go online, come to our website or Dr. Dad uh uh website. And basically, it's a resource we developed to help fathers of infants and toddlers develop skills to engage them to start that process, that birth process in the mind. So it's about the well child, the sick child, the safe child in the inner child. Everything from understanding how to take the temperature of your baby, how to swaddle a baby, how to soothe it, all these skill sets that many men don't learn, particularly if they, like myself, grew up without a dad in their life and didn't have someone engage them that way. So many of the men who are running from fatherhood didn't have fathers. And they're terrified that they'll be the fathers that they didn't have. In other words, they won't be good fathers. And so what we need to start doing is helping them see no, no, no, no, you can develop these skills. And guess what happens? When she sees him developing those skills, guess what it gives her? Confidence.

SPEAKER_05 27:56

Right.

SPEAKER_06 27:56

Confidence to go forward with that birth, right? Because I now have someone who's gonna come alongside me to be the support neck mechanism that we need, because abortion is very much driven by missing support that the mother has, and the most durable support that she needs to depend on is the support of a father, right? So the father and a husband in that context, but he needs the skill set in order to do that. So these are like practical things that you do, and even even from like the kinds of calls that you take at a pregnancy center. Uh, when I started, like one of the things that uh pregnancy centers told me, said, Well, we're trying to get more fathers engaged. And I said, Well, what happens when when they call? When when when the mothers call? We say, Well, we want to see you come in. I said, Well, ask her, say, say we want him to come too. That's right. Say, we want him to come too. Well, this that simple act. I remember talking to one early on and said, My gosh, we just started saying, Can you bring the father with you? And it dramatically increased the number. Again, fathers have to be invited in. Exactly. In a way that's very welcome. Right. They're welcome. Yeah. That's what God did with Joseph. He invited him in. Like Mary, baby's coming. But Joseph, he went and he invited him in to step into that role as a husband and a father. Well, you have to be doing the same thing. So I look at the pregnancy centers as an archetype of Mary with a child and baby. And then I then I look at it and say, Well, what do you, what are you, what are you doing to uh include Joseph? And so our fatherhood initiative is actually called the Joseph Project.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

That's what it is.

SPEAKER_06 29:31

And we call it the Joseph Project for a couple of reasons. One, the role that Joseph played in the birth of Christ, but also because Joseph was an adoptive father. So it brings adoption in there. So and Joseph's role was not just an individual role to Christ, but it was a community role. Because in the scriptures, when the angel tells Joseph, right, who Jesus is, right? He says he's gonna, he's gonna save the people from their sins. Well, what sins? The Jewish people. So wait a minute. So Joseph had a role that was a community role, not just an individual role. So the Joseph probably brings all that together. So for someone like it, maybe if you're not connected to the mother who's having the pregnancy, but you're supporting the pregnancy center as a guy, you're playing a Joseph role to the Mary, if you will, that's the pregnancy center. If you're the guy who got the woman pregnant, well, then you have a Joseph role to play, pray to her, to be a husband to her and a father to the child going inside of her. Because remember, when when Jesus was at risk for Herod killing, getting killed by Herod, the Mary was at risk. Who did the angel go to? Not to Mary, went to Joseph. Went to Joseph and told him to do what? Provide and protect. First told to be a husband to her, a father to the child going inside of her, and then to provide and to protect. So in God's design, there's always been a role for men when there's an unplanned pregnancy. And that's what the evil one wants to force. He wants every man, every man to make like Joseph. I mean, excuse me, make like to make like Adam and be silent. And we have to call Adam out in the same way that God did. And so that that's really a big part of the work that we've been trying to inspire our affiliated pregnancy centers to do and the broader folks that are doing this work.

SPEAKER_05 31:11

Yes, absolutely. Well, friends, if you're just joining us, we're talking with Roland Warren. He heads CareNet. He's going to tell us a little bit more about that. We're with Jacob Barr, of course, on the ProLife Team podcast. I'm ProLife Leader Frank Pavona, Priest for Life. And, you know, Roland, as you were talking too, I was thinking about the many groups that have arisen. And I'm encouraged to see more and more of this. Ministries specifically to men within the circles of our pro-life movement. One of the young leaders that's been rising recently, Sean Corcoran, my own associate Kevin Burke, that works with men, especially in the arena of healing after abortion. Of course, we think all the way back. Warren Williams kind of started out as a pioneer in this area. Brad Mattis, many of our friends and colleagues have felt a call, as you have, to a special, give a special attention to men, to fathers. And that is just so, it's not just valuable. That's too weak of a word. It's essential. It's absolutely foundational, pivotal uh to the saving of civilization. So thank you for all this work. Tell our audience a little bit more about CareNet, the size and scope, uh the number of centers that you serve. You have a beautiful conference that I've been privileged to be at just about every year. Uh you have it usually in the late summer. Uh tell us about CareNet.

SPEAKER_06 32:28

Yeah, yeah. Just the ministry uh that was started in 1975 by uh Francis Schaefer, C. Everett Coop, and a theologian named Harold O.J. Brown. You might have connected with him. I did. I did. Yep. You did know him as well. And uh you mentioned Guy Condon. I'm a bit of a Guy Condon groupie because I felt like I'm kind of extending some of the stuff that he did because he had started this process of engaging men around abortion healing and things of that nature. Um, I think his book was Aborted Fatherhood, I think it was, if my memory serves me correct, uh, where it started that process of of the role of men and the fact that abortion affects affects men. But started then, uh, and you know, and it's kind of crazy. A lot of different uh folks were involved. Even Jesse Jackson was involved before he became pro-choice. I just found that out recently when I was doing some research when he passed away, and then he became pro-choice when he wanted to run for president. So it was started there, it was called the Christian Action Council. It started a little ministry program called the Caring Network to help support uh pregnancy centers that were popping up with the emergence of Roe and these abortion clinics that were coming into communities over time. They said, you know, we need to focus on trying to help support uh this growing network of pregnancy centers and kind of shifted the vision more to the care side of the uh the equation and then it became CareNet. And so now we have uh 1,300 plus affiliated pregnancy centers in the US and Canada. We have a robust initiative focused on uh engaging churches and helping them have a ministry platform uh to be able to bring people in who have faced uh pregnancy decisions. We have something called our pregnancy decision line, uh, which is actually based in Dallas with folks sprinkled across the country. We're taking calls from women and men who are facing pregnancy decisions. And then we have an a uh abortion recovery and care ministry. Uh we have a uh a ministry kit called Forgiven and Set Free for Women, uh that was uh written by Linda Cochrane, who you probably I knew, you've probably known over the years. And then we and then we took Guy Condon's book and and modified it and and created a new initiative for men uh called Reclaiming Fatherhood there. So very, very uh comprehensive in terms of what we do. All of that ministry work is under the banner of what we call a pro-abundant life framework. Yes, I was gonna ask you about that. Yes, tell us about that. Yes, yeah. So, you know, um pro-abundant life, people ask me, well, what's it to be pro-pro-abundant life? But it's basically this. You know, in John 10 10, where Christ said, I came that you might have life and have it abundantly, basically Jesus wasn't pro-life, he was pro-abundant life. So I'm not making this up. It's like what he said. Like, I came to my life and have that light abundantly. So, you know, I when when I when God called me, I started to really kind of look into that verse and he gave me this insight that what Jesus was talking about was two types of life. He was talking about physical life, the Greek word bios, bios, where we get the word biology. But he was also talking about Zoe, a unique type of spiritual life that only comes from a relationship with God. So he's basically saying, I came to link your bias to my Zoe, that you might be heartbeats that are heaven-bound. Heartbeats that are heaven-bound. Now, you can be an atheist and be pro-life because you're so you're solving for bias. But you can't be an atheist and be pro-abundant life because you're not solving for Zoe. So it's about the not yet born and the not yet born again. You see. So that framework became like the perspective. So we're a pro-abundant life ministry. And then when you say, Well, how do you take that kind of heavenly reality, that why statement of Jesus, and bring it to earth? We say, Well, how does that happen? Well, there's two pillars that hold this perspective up. So you imagine I have a roof here that's the pro-abundant life roof, and then you have these two pillars that hold it up. The first pillar is God's design for family, which is it, which is basically in the first chapter of the first book of the New Testament, which we've talked about. It's the Mary and Joseph story, right? When a woman has a guy who says, I'll be a husband to you and a father to the child growing inside of you, what does that do? She's more likely to give the child what? Pias, physical life. And the second pillar that holds that up is God's call to discipleship. In other words, looking at the life issue through the lens of it's it's not just about saving a baby, it's not just about uh uh uh uh creating a family, it's about what heartbeats that are heaven-bound bound. So, how can we help those ones who are facing pregnancy decisions find life here but also find life hereafter? That's the pro-abundant life thing. So that that framework, all of our ministry programs are designed to do that. So our helping the pregnancy centers add men to the work that they do, what does that do? Well, that gives you God's design for family. Helping those clients who are reached through the pregnancy centers get connected to churches and parages across the country so that they can be disciples, who make disciples who live in love like Jesus, that's God's call to discipleship. So it all answers that central question. If a woman came to you, right, and she was pregnant, facing uh abortion at risk for abortion, and you could change everything except the fact that she's pregnant. Well, this pro-abundant life perspective solves all of that. God's design for family and God's call to discipleship. It brings all of that together in one framework. And that's the ministry approach that we have here at Carnette and all of our programming. Everything that we do is really focused on this pro-abundant life perspective in terms of that.

SPEAKER_05 37:52

Well, I'll always remember uh the day that you I was at, I think it was at uh one of your conferences, you brought me into the room there and you said, we're gonna launch this initiative of the churches. I was so, so I felt so blessed to be in on that right from the beginning. And of course, we've been promoting it through our channels, but I I really uh really uh uh rejoice in the fruit that that's bearing. And and it gives a bridge for the churches to be connecting to the pregnancy centers, which is something that we all always encourage, but but this gives it a framework, you know, very biblically based framework, as you've articulated. Well, well, uh friends, uh, we've been talking with uh Roland Warren. And Roland, I know we could talk to you all day. I know you have to, yeah, you have to go, but I want to give you a chance to um give any final thoughts that you want our listeners to know, remind them how to connect with you and with CareNet, and then we'll throw it back to uh our the boss here, uh uh Jacob Barr, who does such a great job with these podcasts.

SPEAKER_06 38:48

But uh Roland, final thoughts. Yeah, great. Listen, uh it's just a blessing to be with you, a pleasure to be with you. Thank you for all the work uh that you've been doing, uh Frank, over the years. Uh you're one of the first people that I met when when I was drafted into the into this uh amazing army. And uh I really want to encourage people to continue to you know to be engaged. You know, much of what I talked about um in terms of the pro-abundant life perspective, it's in a book, a new book that I wrote that's called Why We Must Be Pro-Abundant Life Life, excuse me, the alternative to abortion. I got the sub line first, the alternative to abortion, why we must be pro-abundant life, the alternative to abortion, why we must be pro-abundant life. You can find it on Amazon, hardback, soft cover, and then also uh also digital. But it walks through this framework of of what it means to be pro-abundant life. You can find care net at care at hyphen or dash net.org.org. Uh if you if you want to check out more of what we're of what we're doing and to learn more about the different ministry platforms that that we're about. But again, it's going back to the central question. I just challenge everybody to ask yourself the central question and see are you plugged into things that are helping to answer that central question? And and certainly from our perspective, that's really the goal of Carinet to really help women and men find not just life but abundant life in Christ. And I we think we that's what we're focused uh against, and we think that's what uh Christ calls us to, and certainly we're uh not tired or weary of doing that good work. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Amen for that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

Thank you, Father Frank and Roland. Yeah, um, I really appreciate yeah, just how you explained the the you know fatherhood and and the pro-abundant life. That was so good. Roland, would you close out this podcast with a prayer? Um, with the expectation that those who are listening while driving will try and pray along with us.

SPEAKER_06 40:42

Don't close your eyes. Or you're gonna have them faster than you thought. Wait. So there you go. All right. All right, dear Lord, we uh thank you for uh this work that you've called us to. Uh we know that uh it's uh close to your heart, it goes all the way back to the garden. And uh it's certainly tied to why Jesus came, that we might have life and have that life abundantly. I just pray for those who are listening, uh, Father, that they would um just be passionate about this work. It's not a secondary issue, it's foundational in our nation. It's life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Well, if you don't have life, then nothing else matters. And so that's the work that you've called us to. You are abundant life for us, and you've given it to us and you called us to it. Help us to do that work, uh, but not that we're getting weary of doing the good that we do. I pray that you would just give us a steadfast business as we seek to overcome these obstacles. We know uh that they're coming from the evil one, because it's a spiritual issue primarily. I thank you for uh Frank and and uh Jacob and the work that they're doing to get this message out. Lord, we pray that the hearers of these words, Lord, would not just have inspiration around this, but also perspiration around us. In other words, to get to work to do this work because we don't have a little one in the womb to spare, a family that needs to be formed to spare, or someone who needs to become a disciple of Jesus Christ to spare. So I thank you for that in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 42:29

Take a step, turn around, take a step, put on the armor guy, put on the armor guy, put on the armor guy, put on the armor guy, be strong in the spirit. Strong in the Lord and in his mighty power Turn around, take the set, turn around, take a step, go in a war, go in a war, go in a war, go in a war, not against the flesh, but against the darkness, not against the flesh, but against the darkness Turn around, take a step, turn around, take a step, turn around, take a step, turn around, take a step, turn on, truth, breath later preciousness, turn, the settings of peace, the shield of faith, the hermit of salvation, the spirit, the honor of God, the honor of God, take yourself, turn around, take the day, turn, the fellow truth, turn, the prosperity, the shield of faith, the helmet of salvation, for the spirit, the American, take that sat. Turn around, take that sat. Pray in the Father, pray in the Sun, pray in the Spirit for the Holy Day to come, pray in the Father, pray in the Sun, pray in the Spirit for the Holy Day to come, pray in the Father, pray in the Sun, pray in the Spirit for the Holy Day to come, pray in the Father, pray in the sun, pray in the spirit for the holy day to come, pray in the Father, pray in the sun, pray the Spirit for the Holy Com.