SPEAKER_04 0:00

About, let's see, just about 10 days ago, kind of in the lead-ups lead up to the Dobbs anniversary, we collaborated with another group, Concerned Women for America, who you probably know, to do a briefing on Capitol Hill for congressional staff, basically about the work. It was about moms.gov, but also about PRCs. And one of our asks was I showed a bunch of photos from all of my own PRC visits and told a lot of little vignette stories from places I've been around the country and told the staff, like, please see if you can get your bosses, your members of Congress or your senators to go visit a PRC in their home district, right? Because again, like that's a great way to just raise the profile and the visibility if a member of Congress could go and visit and then shout them out and help tell their story. And um anyway, so we hope that that takes root. A lot of the staff were super excited. We had like 50 or 60 different offices represented. And exactly like you said, I think the more folks who can who can help tell the stories of that side of the pro-life movement, I think the better.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, it it's it's great for people to, you know, visit the praxi clinics because then they're then they're equipped to share stories, they're equipped to give directions, they're first hand knowledge of what you know, what it's like and where to go. That's that's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:11

Yeah, and because and because PRCs are still, you know, several years after Dobbs, still the targets of so much misinformation and ideological lawfare, and you know, not so much what physical vandalism and attacks, I think, anymore as there was around the time of Dobbs. But I think the more voices that can be out there correcting the record about that, right? Just saying, like, you might be hearing that pregnancy centers mislead women or they're all built on fraudulent claims, you know, and that couldn't be further from the truth. This is actually what they do, right? Um, and the kind of help that they provide. So that's I always tell my staff, like, we at the March for Life, our particular calling in the Pro Life Movement is not to run a pregnancy center, but we certainly can and should and will support the people for whom that is their particular role in the movement, you know? So yeah, happy to talk about that too.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

Awesome. Well, let's go, I'll go ahead and get us started. And I might even keep that first bit of just us chit-chatting in there.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

So welcome to the pro life team podcast. I'm Jacob and I'm here with Jenny. So, Jenny, go ahead and give us your yeah, your backstory. I know you were just sharing it, but that's before I started recording. If you go ahead and yeah, share your backstory and then we'll dive into some stories uh along your pro-life experience and journey.

SPEAKER_04 2:23

Sure, thank you. Well, I have been leading the March for Life organization for just about 18 months now. And prior to coming to the March for Life, I practiced law in Washington for many years, for about 15 or 16 years. And in my legal career, it's so interesting looking back now, Jacob, because I can see the hand of Providence sort of all along the way. Although, of course, at the time I had no idea what the Lord was leading me to. But all along the way, when I worked in private practice at a law firm, my work in the first Trump administration in the Justice Department, and then as a senior lead policy staffer for domestic policy, and then my work in religious nonprofits as a lawyer for faith-based nonprofits for many, many years. All along the way, I was having an opportunity to do pro-life work, pro-life legal and policy work, um, andor pro-life volunteer work, or at the university where I was the deputy general counsel for several years. I launched the university's pro-life project, sort of as my side project in addition to my legal work for the school. So there was always this thread of doing pro-life work along the way. But primarily I was an attorney for a number of years in DC, which is a great place to build a legal career and have been a marcher for life for many years, 25 years now. It's but it feels funny to be old enough to say that. But I first came to the March for Life, as so many people do, as a college student. I came as a college freshman for the first time, and I had the classic March for Life experience of coming to Washington on an overnight bus from my college in the Midwest. I went to Notre Dame, so it's about 600 miles to DC, and came, slept on the floor at a Catholic church in Virginia, came to the march, hopped on the bus, went 600 miles home, and I was totally blown away, even as someone who had grown up in the pro-life movement. I had never been surrounded by so many pro-life people and pro-life young people in particular. So that was 2001, and I fell in love with the March for Life. It really helped form my own adult pro-life commitments, kind of right at that crucial moment in a teenager's life where you're stepping out of your parents' home and starting to build your own adult identity and adult set of beliefs. I, like so many people, was formed by the March for Life in those really crucial years. So now I've been raising my children here in the Washington suburbs, and they've grown up as little marchers, and my family and I have been marching for many years. So when the March approached me a couple of years ago now and asked if I'd be willing to discern coming to lead the organization, I was initially surprised because again, it's wasn't what I I was a, you know, had been a lawyer for many years, and this is not legal work primarily, but very quickly, as soon as I brought it to prayer, it was very clear that this is where the Lord was was leading me. And I was just very happy and joyful to say yes. And it's been a great honor to be leading the March since then.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Cool. So so what's the mission or vision vision that the March for Life has?

SPEAKER_04 5:04

Mm-hmm. Well, the March for Life really is about harnessing the power of collective public witness, is how I would, on behalf of the unborn, is how I would shorthand it. And that power really benefits both the movement itself and the culture writ large. In other words, if I were going to give you maybe the top three things, right, the top three ways that the March for Life makes a unique contribution to the life and the well-being of the pro-life movement and the cause of life. Number one, just you know, per my own story that I just shared, the March for Life forms young people for lifelong pro-life mission. Generations and generations, millions and millions of young Americans have been formed by the March for Life in its 50 plus years. Myself among them, and many other leaders, volunteers in the movement, faith leaders, good people who are raising good pro-life families have come to the march and been formed by it as young people. And that incredible experience of being on the iconic National Mall in downtown Washington with the mall just full of people as far as the eye can see, all there in the middle of winter because they care about the unborn. There's nothing like that. You know, the the online world is a very important place to be evangelizing for life, but it's easier to scroll past a video. You know, you can't miss that experience of being in a crowd that big and being just swept up by it. Number two, one thing that I think I hadn't actually realized about the march and its impact until I started leading it was the way in which it's so deeply important to pro-life veterans, people like you and me, Jacob, who have been laboring in the pro-life vineyards for for many years. And that can be tiring, is you know, and it can feel lonely depending on where people are and how solid of a pro-life or faith community they have. And what I have heard from people over and over and over again is folks say, I come to the March for Life and it feeds me for the rest of the year. Or it's like, it's my shot of energy, it's my encouragement. Or I love seeing all these young people and it reminds me that the pro-life future is so bright and so strong. So that kind of catalyst to the movement itself and the way that people are renewed and refreshed at the March for Life, again, is totally unique to the March. And then three is the obvious, just the public impact of that huge collective public witness on behalf of the unborn. It's really, for anyone who hasn't been to the march, I'm trying to kind of paint a picture in words for you. Again, we staged down on the national mall. And then really, even from the raised stage that I have been able to be on for the last couple of years, I'm seeing the march. You can't see the end of the crowd. That's how many people are there. And they're not just on the National Mall, the grassy part, but they're spilling out into the streets. And then once the march itself starts, the streets, the kind of major thoroughfares in Washington, are completely full. And it takes hours for everyone to make their way through the relatively short march route because the crowd is so big and so dense. And it's very, very joyful. The march gets a bad rab and is mischaracterized sometimes, like the whole pro-life movement of being full of kind of angry older guys or something. And that couldn't be further from the truth. I mean, the March for Life is full of young people and families and church groups who are holding signs from their home churches or their Christian schools and singing songs and hymns and chants, and um, the energy is really incredible. So that's really what the march's particular charism is is bringing the movement together for a big tent unity moment that isn't just unity for the sake of unity, although unity is an important good, obviously, and is of the Lord, but that that day catalyzes young people and kind of knits them into the movement. It renews and refreshes pro-lifers who've been at it for a long time. And it shows our political leaders, our media elites, uh our cultural leaders, the entire city of Washington, that the pro-life movement is, you know, not tired of showing up and is never gonna stop showing up, even on one of the coldest days of the year, because we are so motivated on behalf of the rights of the unborn. And there's no other route that the movement has really to send that message home in quite such a powerful way.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

And what are what are the dates of the March? And uh are those likely to change but with the Dobbs decision, are they gonna stay the same or what's the plan with the dates?

SPEAKER_04 9:09

Yeah, it's a good question. So typically the march, again, this the we've been marching for life for over 50 years, and I'm sure many listeners of this podcast will be people who have attended for decades. Uh, it's such a pleasure to meet folks who say, Oh, I've only missed a few in those 50 years. So we typically march on the Friday closest to the Dobbs or to the row anniversary date in January, right? So this coming year, 2027, it will actually be on January 22nd, the anniversary itself, just because of the wonderfuls. The following year, 2028, is a little bit further away because of some kind of peculiarities of the calendar. But it will, we march in January. That is challenging. Of course, it presents some challenges. The march has never had to be canceled because of winter weather, thanks be to God. And I think that really is a sign of just God's providence. And he wants this event to be able to happen. I do think that it gives the pro-life movement an opportunity to really show what we're made of, right? Because again, no, I there's no other social movement in history that has sustained or possibly could sustain the kind of motivation and momentum that the pro-life movement has been able to sustain through and at the March for Life. Because when you're motivated by this kind of deep commitment to human dignity and human rights, winter weather doesn't get in the way, right? It just doesn't. You bundle up and you go. But to your point about maybe, you know, Dobbs and moving the and moving the date, my understanding, this was before I was officially at the organization. I think there was some sort of kicking the tires on that idea in the early days, right after Dobbs. And interestingly, the feedback was unanimous and very strong, it sounds like, especially from college presidents, high school principals, youth group leaders, and faith leaders who said it's so much harder to bring students in large numbers when it's not when it's outside the academic year. And more or less said, you know, we see how important this event is for forming our young people. And if they're not in school, if they're scattered to family vacations and summer sports or whatever, camps and all this sort of thing, we can't, we can't bring them. So there really was this kind of collective request from those very important kind of constituents, you know, can we keep it during the academic year? And I think that makes a lot of sense. And I have to tell you, Jacob, we're we're heading into a 104 degree heat wave here in DC. So I think that a summer march actually would probably be much more dangerous, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Uh yeah, especially with the humidity. It'd be miserable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:27

Yeah. Summer in Washington is really something to contend with. Yeah, absolutely. That's really nice about the winter weather.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

You can always put on more layers.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

Definitely you put on more layers. And we always have a warming bus available for anyone who really needs to step inside.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

So that makes sense. And uh and really it's more symbolic. And so what is the, you know, what event could take place in the future? But what is the desired event that would make it so we don't need to march anymore?

SPEAKER_04 11:54

Yeah, it's you know, that's a really great question. And I think sort of buried in the way you framed that question is like, why are we still marching, right? And the March for Life, my here's my little March for Life history lesson, it was launched in the immediate wake of Roe versus Wade by a woman named Nellie Ray, who was a government attorney at the time. She worked for the U.S. Department of Labor, ended up leaving her job to work on the march full-time once it took off. But Nellie and a handful of friends here in DC just sat in her house and said, Well, we need to get out there and protest. And their initial vision, their initial vision, this was in the early 70s, was we'll keep marching until Roe versus Wade is overturned, right? Now I and I think the reason for that is that there was a sense that maybe abortion would end once Roe versus Wade was overturned, right? So that was the way to sort of frame the goal. Over the course of the next 50 years, right? It was about 49 years until Dobbs did finally overturn Roe. It became very clear, I would say, that abortion is not just a legal problem, but it's really a cultural problem, right? And that restricting the availability of abortion through a decision like the Dobbs decision, which actually has not brought abortion numbers down overall because of the rise of chemical abortions, right? Um, is this what challenging and distressing dynamic in the last few years? Actually, that that would drive down abortion supply, right? And it does. And and legal restrictions on abortion or abortion bans and pro-life states are really important and they save lives, I should say. There is really good data that abortion bans and pro-life states save lives. But that doesn't address the demand side, right? So that restricts abortion supply, but there's still such a strong demand for abortion in our culture, which is just so built around the culture of death and easy access to abortion and this idea that abortion is the easy way out when a pregnancy is challenging or unexpected in any way. That's an ongoing issue that really still needs to be addressed. So when we march for life now, and this was true before Dobbs, and it's very much true after, we're marching because too many abortions are still happening in this country. And that's again, because of, you know, pro-abortion states that have drilled down and leaned in on making abortion easily accessible since Dobbs. It's because of chemical abortion that's easily accessible through the internet, even in strong pro-life states, because of the federal government not taking the action it needs to take to limit chemical abortions, et cetera. So there is still legal and policy work that needs to be done. But I would say even more than that, we need to keep converting the culture so that abortion becomes, as the movement often says, not just illegal, but also unthinkable. In other words, that women aren't seeking out abortion in such large numbers. And converting the culture through forming young people and this massive public witness every year is a big part of what the March for Life is still about. So when would we stop marching when abortion is eradicated in the United States, right? When when women ha not only have resources available to confidently choose life, but know how to find those resources and when there's enough support and resources to go around, and we have moved away from this idea that easy access to abortion is a key element of women's empowerment or success or any, you know, any of those things.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

Yeah. And it's it's pretty hard to eradicate a sin. So because sin is it is you know, and even if it was, you know, you know, uh abolished in the in the law, just like slavery was eventually abolished.

unknown 15:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

It would probably still be worthwhile to march in celebration of abolishing abortion.

SPEAKER_04 15:20

Yeah, absolutely.

unknown 15:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:22

And you know, I love that framing actually. I'm glad you said that because my team and I, um in the last year and a half, we've talked quite a bit just about the the faith, hope, and love that are at the center of the pro-life movement and marching for life, right? How trying to eradicate abortion is really serious business and we have to be serious about it. But we can go about that business with a lot of peace and confidence because we know we're working for a cause that ultimately will prevail because Jesus has won the victory over death, right? Then we might not prevail in our lifetimes, right? Because, like you said, sin is powerful and it is present with us here in this world. But uh, but that we're marching on behalf of and inspired by things that are good with a capital G, right? And that there is a lot to celebrate about life. Even now, there's a lot to celebrate about the goodness and the beauty of life. And this past year, 2026, the theme that we chose for the National March for Life and all of our state marches across the country as well, is life as a gift, because we wanted to really just lean into that theme about the beauty and dignity of every single human life and how every life is something to be that should be welcomed and celebrated, right? Now we talk a lot about supporting new life in the pro-life community, but life really should be not just supported, but celebrated, right? Because it is a gift and it's of the Lord.

SPEAKER_03 16:36

Awesome. So where have you seen what's what's a story connected to the walk for life? Or you've seen God's fingerprints and you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_04 16:46

Thank you. Well, I'm happy to share a story that's not something that we have hosted, but that my team was so blessed to participate in just a couple days ago on Saturday, this weekend, here in the DC area. And that's a project called the Community Baby Shower, which we actually were connected with through the Maryland March for Life, which is part of our state March for Life network. It was held in the spring. We had um two Marches for Life on the same day this spring. So I was in a different state and sent my a few of my team members to the Maryland March for Life here in Annapolis. At that event, they met a really dynamic pastor who leads a small Baptist church in Prince George's County, Maryland, so a suburban county uh to Washington, D.C. on the on the Maryland side. And he ended up sharing that day and then inviting my team to be a part of the community baby shower and resource fair that his congregation of just 300 people at this little Baptist church launched a few years ago in their community. Uh, and he and his wife, Pastor Pugh and his wife, that is, have a pro-life testimony. They had an unplanned pregnancy when they were young and unmarried. And they have such a heart for the children of God and especially unborn babies. So they launched this baby shower just looking around their own community and specifically a very heavily African-American area of the DC suburbs, and saying, this is a community where there's a lot of needs and where um parents need a lot of support, and our church is gonna step out and help with that. So they held the first community baby shower a few years ago just at their church property, and I think they made the congregation made lunch for everyone who came. It was really beautiful. The next year it grew to something like 600 people came. Then MedStar got involved, which is a massive health company, healthcare company here in the DC area, because they saw that driving down infant and maternal mortality in that community was something that they wanted to really prioritize. So now you've got your kind of corporate sponsorship and involvement. This year, Jacob, their community baby shower that happened on Saturday, had 2,500 families who came. It's now held in like elite sportsplex in PG County. And 45 community organizations attend alongside this Little Baptist Church that launched it. And they provide everything from free diapers and wipes to everyone who comes. They're also doing health screenings for the parents. They're doing a lot of infant care education. They're talking, um, they're addressing food insecurity and trying to, there's a little bit of a social work element, trying to hook people up with resources, just um general wellness for their families. They had something called the Dad's Den, where dad, you know, the fathers who attended could hang out together and there were speakers and resources and support for dads in particular, and then lessons like safe car seat installation, right? That's often in like the dad's lane, right? And so teaching these guys how to make sure their car seats were installed safely. And then they were doing giveaways for big ticket items like car seats, pack and plays, strollers. It's an amazing, amazing project. Infant care and early childhood development information. So 2,500 families from this somewhat under-resourced area of the DC suburbs came to this event, all launched by one visionary pastor in his little church. And then again, you know, it's because it's meeting concrete needs in the community. It just grew and grew and grew. So my team was so just honored to be able to be a part of it. We've collaborated with our friends at Every Life Diapers to bring, you know, bring some of the diapers that were given out that day and just meet folks and encourage people and be present there. But that I love that story and I'm happy to have a chance to tell it because that is, I think, just such a great inspiration and example for all of us in the movement, or even people who wouldn't necessarily consider themselves in the movement, quote unquote, but have a heart for life, to just show the ripple effect of one devoted couple and then the group of folks that they lead at their church and what you can do in your own community. You start small, but again, if it's meeting a real need and there's like a hunger for that kind of camaraderie and support and celebration, right? I love that they themed it as a baby shower, not just like a resource fair, but this is a baby shower where we're handing out gifts. You know, there's a lot of swag. They decorate it so it looks like a baby shower. It's just the coolest thing, and that is the pro-life movement really in action and just like being responsive to the Lord calling us to serve our neighbors, you know, in a really concrete way.

SPEAKER_03 21:01

That's so that's so good. Uh there's a podcast episode that I haven't published yet, but it's gonna be published soon, where this gentleman Bryce was talking about how in the pro-life movement we need to um build everything built on the gospel. We need to do things with excellence and then take risks with innovation, try out new ideas. And he had some really amazing biblical references for each one of those three. And so that's just a beautiful example of built on the gospel, doing things with excellence, and being innovative and and then seeing what God does with it.

SPEAKER_04 21:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

That's just so good.

SPEAKER_04 21:38

So I totally agree. I mean, my mind was blown when Pastor Pugh shared with me that Med Star had come alongside again, just this kind of like big secular health, you know, hospital company, essentially. They run a bunch of urgent cares. But that's when you know, like you said, that you're doing something excellent, right? When an organization that is not pro life in the traditional sense, right, sees it and says, like, oh my gosh, these people are really meeting a community need, and we want Come alongside them so that we can help serve this community and meet their needs and do it in a way that's very respectful and gives people a lot of dignity and also gets them resources and support that they need. So hats off to Pastor Colin Pugh and Clinton Baptist Church, County, Maryland, because they're really, I think, showing the way to being genuinely and concretely pro-life.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

Well what was the name of that church again? Because someone might want to call them and say, how can we bit uh you know mimic or replicate what you're doing that's so amazing?

SPEAKER_04 22:27

Totally. I mean, that would be incredible. It's called Clinton Baptist Church in Prince.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

And then what city?

SPEAKER_04 22:32

Um it's in, I don't remember what city they're in, but the it's Prince George's County, Maryland.

SPEAKER_03 22:37

Okay. Cool. Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah. Pastor Pugh. Awesome. So so Jenny, tell us uh what kinds of uh me rephrase this. Uh how might a pregnancy clinic with you know, let's say you're you're talking to a pregnancy clinic director, and how could you promote an idea or options for how a pregnancy clinic can connect with the March for Life in DC or the March like March for Life that might be happening in their state? Or if there's not a March for Life in their state, what what options would she have to explore that?

SPEAKER_04 23:12

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for asking. So this is where I should say a little bit more first about our state March for Life program. The March for Life, in addition to the National March for Life, our marquee event that I've been talking about, we march for life in 21 states as well. And that number is growing. The March for Life State March for Life program is pretty new, really just a few years old, really took off after COVID. So we're growing and growing and growing in terms of adding states every year. Those states, you can look on our website, which is marchforlife.org and see a map and a list of where we march. This our marches are almost always in state capitals because we do always have an advocacy component and advocacy, you know, some education and call to action about pending legislation, for example. We have a couple that just for various reasons are not in state capitals. For example, I was out at the Alaska State March in April, which is in Anchorage, because in Alaska, Anchorage is just so very much the center of gravity in the state that marching in their state capital would make it inaccessible to a lot of people and church groups who otherwise would want to come. But we typically march in state capitals. Often, although not always, there is a little bit of an expo at a state march where local pregnancy centers are welcome to come and set up a table and hand out material and merch and meet folks and that sort of thing. So we I always love seeing PRCs and maternity homes at the state marches in that capacity. A lot of folks will also just come and march with their PRC groups. And I have have had so much fun meeting just PRC groups as I kind of weave my way through the marchers at all of these events. I also set a goal for myself when I became the president of the March for Life of visiting a PRC or maternity home everywhere that I travel for the March for Life. So that means specifically all the state capitals across the country where we have state marches, but also places where I go for speaking engagements and other sorts of things for the March. I try. I have my team do some research. Sometimes they will talk to the local pro-life organization that we work with on our state marches and reach out to a PRC and ask if we can visit. And I've been really honored that folks always say yes. And my goal in visiting PRCs across the country is, I guess, threefold. It's one, just to be able to extend my thanks and thanks on behalf of the March for Life team to the folks who are really on the front lines of serving serving women and their babies. We, our charism in the in the pro-life movement is not to do that kind of frontline service. We have a different calling, the March for Life in our team in the movement, but um, but we very much respect and admire and want to be helpful to the people who are doing that work of walking with moms every day. I also want to be able to tell the stories of the pregnancy care movement. So we use our social media platforms and even our literal platforms. We always at all of our events um in we almost always invite a PRC director and or a PRC client, sometimes both, to speak at our state marches or at the national march. Again, so that we're using all of our platforms, our like, you know, metaphorical platforms online and our literal platforms at our marches to tell the story of the pregnancy care movement and what the pregnancy care movement is able to do. Um and I'm always happy to do that. So I, you know, I understand that here and there we've met a PRC where they, for various reasons, um, don't want us taking photos or or like, you know, putting them on our March for Life social media accounts. But typically, and we're always respectful of that, but typically folks are very happy for us to collab with them on Instagram or chat them out on Twitter and and kind of try and point resources to them, right? By just encouraging folks, find your local PRC, right? Here's one that I visited today that's incredible and deserving of support. Here's the kinds of things they do. Find your local PRC and support them in your community, whether that's by volunteering or giving money or bringing diapers and wipes over or baby clothes or whatever. So I have absolutely loved that. And it has given my team and me just a lot of great stories that we share continually. I was mentioning to you, Jacob, when we were offline that I was able to tell the stories of a number of PRCs I visited at an event on Capitol Hill just a couple of weeks ago to educate folks on the Hill about what PRCs do and then encourage members of Congress to try and visit their local PRCs if they have an opportunity, similarly, so that they can help tell those stories. I think that's particularly important in a time when PRCs are just still being constantly maligned and attacked in print, in the press by uh, you know, unfriendly state attorneys general, for example, and other state-level actors who are really just lying about what PRCs do. It's really important for all of us in the pro-life movement to be able to push back on that. So I would say to PRC directors in particular, if there is a state March for Life in your state, please come. They're typically in the spring or the fall. We have a couple over the summer and a couple in January, but please come. Um come and get a table if there's an expo at the one in your state. Come and introduce yourself to folks during the March itself. You could reach out to, you know, info at marchforlife.org if you'd like my team and I to stop by. We always, always love doing that. And again, just kind of helping to promote the stories of the beautiful work that PRCs are doing, for which we're really very, very grateful.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

Awesome. So, what what what do you think would happen if if a Prince Clinic brought their board, their team, or you know, different different parts of their team to the National March for Life? What would you what do you imagine might happen and what might be the outcome of that?

SPEAKER_04 28:23

Yeah, well, I know a number who do do that actually, and then a few who haven't been able to yet but have plans to do so. I actually I met a pregnancy team, a pregnant PRC team at the Georgia March for Life in March, who told me that they were making plans to take a trip together up to the National March next year, which they've been wanting to do for some years and haven't had a chance yet. I hope and I really believe that PRC teams um who come to the National March will leave feeling so encouraged, really just real very, very encouraged. And it will fill your cup for the hard work that you're doing in your community. The spirit is really present. The Holy Spirit is so present at the National March for Life. And there's a great, of course, kind of educating it we there's a rally, which is an education component. Again, there's an ad, there's an advocacy element typically. There's great speakers. We're blessed with just awesome speakers year after year, both testimony speakers and then kind of high-profile celebrity-style speakers. I can't announce any yet for 2027, but we have some great ones lined up. There's music, there's prayer. It's really wonderful. And then the march itself, again, marching down these kind of grand thoroughfares in Washington, DC, is really um incredibly powerful and very joy-filled. So I know that anyone who comes will have a really great time that I I hope and believe will continue to feed you, as so many people have told me is the case for your work throughout the the year to come.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

Wow. So cool. So with it, so you know, is there like a uh a guide or you know, 20 steps to you know to figure out before going? Because there's gonna be you know very few places to stay based on you know the number of people that will be in the area. Where can someone get instructions or help on making that plan?

SPEAKER_04 30:02

Yeah, that's a great question. I love that very practical question. We do publish what we call a travel planner in the lead up. We haven't yet for 2027, but we will uh, you know, a few months by a few months from now. The travel planner has all of the information that you need. There is an official March for Life room block, and the but a lot of people end up kind of fanning out across the DC area and northern Virginia, or have if they have relationships with churches in the area, you can often find folks from a church to put you up. But that will also have info just about the specifics of the day and kind of the logistics of the location and some prep materials if folks want to share prep materials with their group that they're bringing. So keep an eye on our website again. That's marchforlife.org. And more specifics will continue to roll out in the early fall, is typically when we release that. But in the meantime, if you want to jump on your hotel reservations, you can just take a look at, you know, the national mall and kind of figure out your logistics from uh where you want to be in relation to that.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 30:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:59

Well, uh thank you so much, Jenny, for for being on here and just sharing your story and for doing this amazing encouragement work. Um, what would you like to share before we wrap things up?

SPEAKER_04 31:11

Well, I guess I'll share what what a story that I find really encouraging. And it's just a reminder, again, that that Christ has won the victory over death, and we know we're working for a just and righteous cause, and we should take a lot of peace and confidence for that. But we also do need to remember that this kind of fight, which as you said at the top of our conversation, Jacob, this is a fight against sin. It's a fight against evil, you know, it's it's really a fight against evil. So it's a long, generational, generational battle, right? And I just, it's so important, I think, for those of us who are really in the thick of it in this fight to not lose heart, even though it seems like sometimes we take several steps forward and then several steps backward, right? And I think so often of my of my predecessor Nellie Gray, who I mentioned, the woman who founded the March for Life, ultimately left her work as an attorney and ran the March for 38 years from the first year until the day that she died. Um, and Nellie passed away in 2012. She was quite elderly at the time, and she had built the march from this little friends and family event into, you know, a big 501c3 that runs this, the world's biggest annual human rights event, which is really quite remarkable. Nellie, though, wasn't able to see the Dobbs decision. She died 10 years too early to see Dobbs, right? Which is what she had poured her life out for ultimately, given up her career, um, put her own reputation on the line, poured out her blood, sweat, and tears to see Roe overturned. And she didn't get to see it during her life on Earth. However, you know, there are no coincidences really in the Lord's work. There's just God's providence. And it's incredibly providential that the Dobbs decision was released on Nellie's birthday, which I always think of as a way that the Lord sort of winked at us, right? And just to remind us that He sees and blesses our efforts. He does. And even if we, like Nellie, might not be able to see the eradication of abortion in our lifetimes, that day is coming. And and the Lord, um, the Lord knows and sees what we're doing. And we're called, as I think a great saint once said, like we're not called to be successful, we're called to be faithful, right? And and success is in the hands of the Lord and in his good timing. So in the meantime, we all keep laboring in the vineyards, trying to follow the Lord's call and and work for the cause of life, the greatest human rights cause of our time, and just rest, rest peacefully and confidently, knowing that we're that we're doing his work and following his call on our lives.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

Yeah, before before Dobbs was overturned, if you would have asked me even months before it was overturned, I would have thought, well, for years, I used to think that it would be overturned someday, but I thought I wouldn't live to see it. I thought my children would be alive and maybe they would they might get to see it.

unknown 33:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

And the fact that it overturned during my lifetime was well, it caught it it it was it was an amazing surprise. And what were your thoughts, you know, months or years before Dobbs took place? How did you look at that? You know, you know, did you see it coming at all? Or did you were you happening to be one of the people?

SPEAKER_04 34:07

No, I mean, no, I hate to say that, but but it just in the sense that of course everyone in the pro-life movement, and I and I should mention my father is a pro-life law professor, a recently retired law professor, but spent many decades as a pro-life legal strategist and and professor and and so I I sort of grew up in the legal part of the pro-life movement. So I know very well all of the effort that had been poured into the legal strategy for years, I mean, for decades. And I respect very much all of that work that was done. But nonetheless, the politics of abortion being what it is and human nature being what it is, no. I mean, even when Dobbs was pending, I wasn't, I guess, totally convinced that we were gonna see the end of Rome, like you said, you know, because it just felt so enormous that it almost felt like it was impossible. And then all of a sudden, right, the possible became possible thanks to some brave judges who were willing to follow the law where it led them. We'll always be grateful to this Supreme Court for that that boldness in following the law. And and that is a great encouragement as well, right? That these goals that seem unattainable, we're gonna get there. We really are. We really are with the Holy Grace.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

It really shows the the power of voting. Well, you know, God's in control, and and it is important to vote, and it's also important to have men of character and or people, w women and men of character as Supreme Court justices because that's such an important role in in at least in this, in the Dobbs decision.

SPEAKER_04 35:35

Yep, absolutely. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

How would you describe you know the most important variables outside of the gospel and God being in control? What would you you know classify as like really important things to not lose sight of based on what we've learned from the Dobbs decision?

SPEAKER_04 35:51

Mm-hmm. Right. Well, the Dobbs decision, you know, the Dobbs case itself was a great collaboration, of course, between ADF, Fantastic Law Firm, and the lawyers for the state of Mississippi, right? And the groundwork for the legal strategy there, again, had been laid by many others over many years. So I think it was a great example of the power of unity and collaboration, right? And sort of bringing a lot of ideas and a lot of people to the table and taking a bold approach, right? Um, but really working together on it. So that I think is something for us to remember in the movement that we're we're better and we're stronger when we're rowing in the same direction. Um, and and remembering that we're all working for the same goals. In the movement, there is, like in the body of Christ, where, you know, as as um as the letters of St. Paul remind us, like we're we're one in the body of Christ, but there are many parts, right? And it's the same in the pro-life movement. We have the same goals, but there are different voices, different approaches, different organizations that have different charisms or different callings. That's okay. And and the movement is strongest when all of those different parts, those body parts, if you will, are really working together, like we saw, uh like we saw in the Dobbs decision. And then around Dobbs, now, of course, Dobbs in the end was was built on built around legal questions, right? But um, but again, like that moment of setting up Dobbs was the work of not just the lawyers who laid the legal groundwork, but the communications strategists and the grassroots and all of the groups that filed amicus briefs at the court, each one addressing a different potential concern of the justices to make sure they had all the information they needed. And one thing that was really that's really interesting about the legal analysis in Dobbs, it's the question, right, is like, um, does Starry Decisis govern here or can we overturn this 50-year-old legal decision? And part of the starry decisis analysis is is what we're, is the decision we're considering overturning. Is it settled law, more or less, right? Is it is it so settled that it would be deeply destabilizing to the country if we were to overturn it? That's not exactly the words that Justice Leto used. He wrote in a more lawyerly way, but that's the way to kind of understand what they were looking at. And really, this is again where the March for Life comes in, I think, and the grassroots pro-life movement, right? The folks who weren't really involved in the legal strategy over the years, but who showed up in Washington every year in January or who were involved in their hometowns or their home states, it was very clear, very clear, I think, thanks to the grassroots pro-life movement, that this question was not settled law and had never been, right? That the country had never fully accepted abortion on demand. Um, and that that's part of what freed up the Supreme Court in their legal analysis to move away from Roe. So everyone in the movement, not just through prayers, but through continued advocacy and activism and showing up year after year, really helped lay the groundwork for the Dobbs decision.

SPEAKER_03 38:43

So very cool. So so when and when Dobbs came out, I remember uh doing the math, and I think it was we were in the 49th year. It's like it was like 49 point 49 years, and is either three months or five months?

SPEAKER_04 38:59

Five months, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

And uh and uh so I remember thinking, so we we're I think we're technically in the 50th year, like the 50th year was partially through.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:08

And what do you think about you know, is that is it a stretch to call that the year of jubilee or is that a biblical reference?

SPEAKER_04 39:15

Oh, I love that. Oh my gosh, the year of Jubilee, the year of freedom. No, that's easy. Yeah. Isn't it perfect? I mean, it just again, there are so many ways in which in which it's a providential story. Uh no, I don't think that's a stretch at all.

SPEAKER_03 39:28

Yeah, I think, yeah, I felt like God's hand was all over Dobbs and I mean and the fact that you know the the the founder of the March for Life, her birthday, it's in the 50th year. Like technically, it's 49 point 49 years and five months, I suppose.

SPEAKER_04 39:45

Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 39:47

It's giving and how many people I mean if you try and if you keep trying to think of how many people have prayed for the end of row, yeah, over how many years, it would be it'd be a very large, large number.

SPEAKER_04 40:04

Almost inconceivably large number, yeah. No, you can't.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

And how many prayers were answered, yeah, with that with that move? And there's obviously still need, it's obviously still work per state, and maybe even abolishing it at the federal level, but it's still uh it's still an amazing answered prayer.

SPEAKER_04 40:24

Absolutely. Yeah, that's that's absolutely right. And one of the really beautiful things about working in the pro-life movement, and I'm sure that the the folks listening to this to this program have the same experience that I do, and I'm sure you do too, Jacob, of just so many good people who are praying for our work, right? Who are praying for the cause of life, who are praying specifically for the March for Life. I have been so humbled and moved by the number of people who are praying for me and my team and for God's hand of protection over the march itself every year. And that is so true. I'm sure every pregnancy resource center in the country has prayer support from local churches and really good people. And that is so powerful. And it's one of the just incredibly beautiful things about the movement that we're in. We, my team and I, especially at our busiest times of year, we really can feel the prayers coming our way from across the country from so many good and faithful people who are really close to the Lord's heart. And that is um that's that's what keeps this movement going, you know. I mean, it's it's it's hard work and can be discouraging because, again, we're up against the forces of death. But we support one another with our prayers as well as with our, you know, as well as tangibly as well, of course. But you can't can't discount the power of prayers. And we are lucky as a movement to have so many prayer warriors behind us.

SPEAKER_03 41:38

Yeah, and just to think, you know, people that have prayed and then you know, the the prayer was answered after their life has you know came to an end. That's right. It's just so impactful how you know we've had generational generations praying for this over that 50 years.

SPEAKER_04 41:54

Yep, absolutely. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 41:56

Well, Jenny, would you close out this podcast with a prayer and we'll with expectation that those who are listening can join in.

SPEAKER_04 42:04

Sure, absolutely. Yes. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, amen. Lord, I just give you praise and and thanks for the great gift of being able to work for the cause of life, a cause which is so close to your heart, as innocent children are so close to your heart. Lord, I ask your protection over the pro-life movement and every person and organization who works in it, strengthen the movement and all of your servants in it against the slings and arrows that are inevitable when you're working for a just and righteous cause and working for a cause so close to God's heart. I ask your protection over pregnancy resource centers, over their physical spaces, over their supporters and their board members and their work. I ask you, Lord, for a spirit of good energy for everyone who's toiling in the pro-life vineyards, especially in this hot season of summertime where folks tend to move a little bit more slowly. Lord, I lift up to you today every every woman who is finding out about a pregnancy today, especially those for whom it is not welcome news, any woman who is crying tears and not tears of joy when she sees her pregnancy test today, Lord, I just really entrust in a special way to your hands. And I ask you to strengthen the resolve of every pregnant woman who might be considering abortion today. Bring her the helpers and the support that she needs. Bring the right people to her path, bring the right Google search results to her, Lord. Let her see the right billboards in her town so that she can find the support that is out there for her and move the hearts of moms and dads everywhere, Lord, just to choose life for their babies. Again, we give you thanks for the great blessing of being able to do this work. May it redound to your glory, Lord, always. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 43:49

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

Be strong in the Lord and it is mighty power Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power Turn around take a step turn around take a step We're going to war We're going a war We're going a war We're going to war Not again Slash but against the darkness Not again slash but against the darkness Turn around Take a step Turn around Take a step Put on the armor of God Put on the armor of God Put on the armor of God Put on the armor of God Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power Turn around Take a step Turn around Take a step Go in a war We're going a war Go in a war We're going to war Not a kick flesh but against the darkness Not a kick's flesh but against the darkness Turn around take a step Turn around take a step Turn around Take a step Turn around Take a step true breath later breakfast The sandals of peace The shield of faith The heaven of salvation Flood in the spirit The armor of God The armor of God turn around Take Step Turn around Fake Drew The breath we have faith The Haven of Salvation By the Spirit The Honor of God The Honor of God Take a step Turn around Take a step Pray in the Father Pray in the Sun Pray in the Spirit for the Holy Day to come pray in the Father Pray in the Sun Pray in the Spirit for the Holy Day to come pray in the Father Pray in the Sun Pray in the Spirit for the Holy Day to come pray in the Father Pray in the Sun Pray in the Bible.