SPEAKER_01 0:00

So, welcome everybody to the ProLife Team podcast. I'm John Merworth from Thrive Point Consulting. Today we have Mike Yaller with us from A Woman's Concern. And Jacob, of course, Jacob Barr. Hi, guys. Hello, hello, John. Hey, Mike. So the reason why we wanted to talk to you today is because you got something really important going on at a woman's concern, and that's your fatherhood program. I have been around the country over the past almost decade working in the pregnancy center field. And your program, your fatherhood program, is one of the best programs that I've seen in the entire country. So we wanted to talk to you about that. And so you you developed something that is really special. And why don't you tell us a little bit about what you did out there in a woman's concern and the name of your program?

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Yeah, so we we have a program, it's it's called Courageous Dads, and and an online uh social media platform called Courage starts here. And so this whole idea of courage and courageous, uh, we find that uh for our center, we serve any of those, any of the ladies that come in, whether they're married and choosing to have the baby, or if they are just not sure, it does not matter, we serve them all. We market heavily to the abortion-minded, abortion-determined uh girl to be able to uh walk with her and to allow her to see that she has choices. And so with that, we find, and and many do, that the first person that she will share this information with is her boyfriend, the guy. And yet uh I've been here uh for over five years now and also have been traveling and learning as much as I can, and I find that not all pregnancy centers are willing to bring him in. They're not sure if they want to bring him in. And so uh what I shared right away is that I have found before I even came here is that when a guy finds out that his girlfriend's pregnant, uh he already has thoughts and opinions. He already has them. And if she only comes in by herself, when she leaves and goes back to talking to him, he still has those opinions. And he could change everything. And so we are very purposefully saying we need to at least bring him in uh to allow him to hear and see the same things that she's hearing. And so that was a big thing for us.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Why why why do you think so many pregnancy centers struggle with the fatherhood?

SPEAKER_02 2:31

One, I just believe that they know he matters, but they are set up and it's been passed down to take care of her. And so change in itself causes issues. We just keep doing the same thing and try to do it better. And rather than sitting down and saying, if the guy's important, if he matters, then how do we handle that? And so, like a lot of it is just stopping and walking through that. Um, because if what we're doing's not broken, why fix it? And so um, for those who decide and recognize that, you know, if you are, and these numbers are different depending on what center you go to, as far as what are you determining as abortion-minded, abortion determined, but we focus heavily on marketing to that group. And when they come in, we have a hard, fine line that that if they're oh, we can't, we're excited, they're we're excited to have the baby, we're excited. Those are great, but we really want to make sure that we're making a difference. And so we market heavily to them. And when they come in, and they're abortion to mind and abortion determined, we recognize, again, that the guy is important. So for the centers that are truly focusing on reaching the lost, the confused, the hurting, the men have to be a part of the story. And that's what we found is that he is actually a part of the story.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Well, one of the things you said that you invest heavily in trying to reach that abortion-minded woman, you also invest heavily in your your program for your dads. And I don't think a lot of pregnancy centers have realized the value of that investment quite yet. So what made what made you, what made your center want to invest in that fatherhood program? You must have seen something that that you made this decision that you're going to invest in it by bringing you on and then giving you a bigger role.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

So Yeah, so I would say that it did start before I was here. Um and I I got word that they were looking for this position. I I bring a pastoral background, coached wrestling for 18 years, and so I've been working with men, particularly young, young men, teenage boys, and walking them through their issues and problems through mentor programs and through wrestling already as a coach. And so the center itself was saying already before I got here that we'd like to do more with the guy if he comes. Uh, and it started with that like if he comes, all the marketing was to her. But if he comes and he's sitting in the waiting room, what will we do with him? And so before I even got here, they were at least bringing him back for the ultrasound if she was okay with that. They they even put a video together that would talk to him about choices and such that they would take him to a room. They already saw that, man, we got to do something. When they're bringing the guy, we just feel like we're missing the the boat here. And so they were already in advance putting things together. And then when I was introduced to them a little bit more about what they're looking to do, I wasn't quite sure what that looked like at all. It was a different playing field than what I was used to. Um and so I came on board and really just learned and listened and was taught heavily language, uh, what language to use. And so I was able to uh use what what God had already ordained me through all my past experiences. I I did prison release ministry, I did homelessness ministry. There was a lot that God already put together before I came here. And so when they were saying we we're not sure what we want, but we want to start providing for the guy because we think it's important, that was prior to me being here.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

And then one of the one of the things, Mike, one of one of the things that I noticed about your center is, and I don't even know if you realize this or not, but you have a lot, a lot many, many more men actually come to your center than most most other centers that that I've seen. So why is that? What how do the men find you?

SPEAKER_02 6:47

So how do they find us? Yeah, that's a that's a that's a big thing. Last year we're one building, one center, uh, and last year we had over 1,200 visits um from men. And so they're they are finding us. We have now in the last year, we we had a uh a landing page for men, and and it's so important. I mean, it's just so important that they find themselves on that landing page. That they they mean they they see it and they say, Oh, okay, I'm important. They at least have something for me. Our name is a woman's concern, and so some men do come because they didn't see our landing page, they might not have seen our Instagram post. They came because she asked him to come along. They come in sort of with an attitude, like a defensiveness, like, I'm not even sure why I'm here, she just told me to come. And then when I they see me, honestly, John, and and this is so important, and I'm I don't have my finger on it, but when I walk through the waiting room door and they see me, a guy, their attitude changes dramatically. They start to then see themselves here. So if we can reach them on our landing pages or our social media where they realize I I'm a part of the story too. I'm just not a side piece, I'm a part of the story. Now they want to come. Um they they want to come. They'll start off, you know, I'm here for her, but when I bring them back to the room, uh everything changes.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Before we get into that, um, I wanted to ask you about a time when so this is very interesting, Jacob, too, is that at a woman's concern, they have the men sometimes men find the pregnancy center, and the men suggest to their girlfriends or their partner that they come to the pregnancy center. Can you tell us about one of those times where where that happened, where it was actually a man who initiated the appointment?

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Yeah, it it's it's uh it's so just recently, and maybe, maybe even just yesterday, they they came in and I was meeting with him, and he was he was standoffish. Um and I mean it's it's it's any of us until we can trust someone, we're we're you know close to the vest, so to speak, and he he was just you know quiet. And I said, Well, my question was, like, how did you guys find us? And he said, Um, I was looking, and I looked up pregnancy Lancaster, and your your sites came up. I saw that you had guys' programs, I saw that there was a men's program, and she was scared. She she knew she was pregnant, she was scared to address the issue, but she told him he waited a week and there was no movement, and so he started to look himself. So we have a landing page, and we also created Courage Starts Here, which is a Instagram and Facebook connection page, is also that is 100% specific to men, to them, and it talks their language, it talks to them specifically. That that's one of the big things is that when these guys come, he has his own fears, he has his own questions, he has his own needs. Um, the moment that we start seeing him as someone worth investing in, everything changes. He sees that on our landing page before he even comes in, and so he's somewhat excited that he's important. Um and so if he doesn't find us and she brings him, initially that initial contact with him changes everything.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

How how do you help a father who's coming in and he's sort of feeling scared or overwhelmed? Men don't usually like to show that, but you know there's a level of stress there, you know that there's some fear in them. But how do how do you actually help them? Like what are some of the things like what why don't you walk us through what happens when a couple comes into the center?

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Yeah, so um if they come in, so so let me just one step back is so we have the landing page and we hope that he finds himself here. And uh for for the high school kids, we we actually will list the local high schools around our area, and it says if you're a student, and it lists their high school, that they can tap on, and it'll give them the directions to our center. What I mean by that, John, is when they see their high school listed, they're already saying, Okay, I'm important. They they know about me. And so even that is huge. So we try to reach them with our marketing and then we invite him in. And let me go with this our center. When I first started, when someone would call in or they would text in and they were looking for an appointment, their one of their first questions was, what day works for you? And she would share her date, the days that work, Tuesdays, but you know, Mondays, whatever. And they would say, Well, let's schedule you an appointment. And then the after question would be, would the father of the baby, the potential father of the baby, be willing to come in? And she would say, Well, no, he works that day. And then they would move on. They would move on. And we have flipped that now. That we we recognize that when the man comes in and they are abortion-minded, when the man comes in, the chances of them choosing life go up dramatically. 70 our numbers go up. Um, close to 80% of them are choosing life, even when they come in abortion-minded, if the man comes in, because he gets talked to, he gets coached, he gets loved on. And so they'll say, We would love to schedule an appointment with you. Would the father of the potential father of the baby be able to come in for your appointment as well? And she would say, Well, yeah, he can, if he can get off work, you know, he would love to come in. And they'll say, Well, what's the day of the week? What works for him?

SPEAKER_03 12:37

And then that's the day they sketched.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

That's a fantastic switch in your script. It's changed. We we the number of men coming in have just increased because now they're important. She's in her own heart, she's saying, Oh wow, hey, they care about you. What what day works for you? And then he his chest gets puffed because he's somebody. And so that's our first thing. Before he even comes in, now the the ones that, you know, so he knows that coming in, but if they come in, he comes in with her getting back to the appointment, they um they will put little notes on the appointment like FOB, Father of the Baby will be coming in, or father of the baby works, or it'll let me know whether he's coming in or not, um, any kind of details they give me. But once they're here and he's in the waiting room, he'll fill out um an intake as well. Um very brief name, address, phone number. But the one question on the front of that intake is if the mother, the if if the mother of the baby, I forget how it's worded, but if she is pregnant, if the pregnancy test is positive, maybe that's what it says, if the pregnancy test is positive, what choice would you hope that she makes? Or something to that degree? And it's just a box that they check. But that's that's big for me because it lets me know before I even bring him back what where he's leaning. If they're already parenting, it let allows me to know that. So he's in the waiting room, he fills it out, she fills her out. The the secretary or staff comes out, offers them a drink, coffee, water, how are we doing? Everything good, sure. Everything's great. Our uh advocate comes out, meets with them both, talks to both of them, not just her, but says to him, hey, Mike will be out shortly to bring you back. We're glad you're here. And then he knows that she takes the female back. We always take the female back, and this is important information as I am promoting bringing the men in, but she drives the show. The woman is still in charge. She still decides whether he comes back or not, she still decides whether he's in the ultrasound room or not. Uh, we bring her back because we want to see that she's safe. We want to make sure that this in fact is her partner and not, you know, sex trafficking for that matter. Like we want to know that that so once we clear that and we're good, then I'm able to go out and bring him back. And so then I'll bring him back and I bring him back into uh to the office and just start. This is where it gets good, is that he's still like, you know, keeping me a little bit at a distance. Uh within the first ten minutes, I just ask about him. So how's your day? Do you did you get off work for today? And we start talking to us. What do you do? Oh, I do this, and how long you've been doing that? And I start just caring about him, you know. Um, so how long have you guys been together? Wow, that's great. Um, four months or four, two years. Like, marriages don't always last that long. You guys, I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you for coming in. And as soon as they hear, I'm proud of you, now they relax. And some of them will say, That's the first time I believe I've ever heard that in my life. Uh, that's the first time that someone actually cared about me. And and they'll say it flat out and they say, I really appreciate that. There's never been a time where I'll say I'm proud of you, where they don't say, I appreciate that. I'll say sometimes the women hear about it, they think they're the Uber driver. They come along, they sit in the car even. They'll wait in the car. Hey, go do your thing, go get your test, you know. And so when they come through our doors, that's special to me. And I want them to know that, that they just became courageous. They just became courageous in the sense that they didn't just wait in the car. We can all just sit in the boat. And he he got out of the boat, and so he's here, and I let him know that.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

And so Yeah. Michael. I've heard you say this more than once, and I wanted to have you explain it. You you often say when a man feels judged, he leaves. When a man feels valued, he listens.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

Yeah, that's so good. That that's I I don't know that that was just here, but I think it was reciprocated here. When these men realize that they're important and they're valuable, they let down their guards, they start talking and they start sharing, and you know, they're open to, you know, they're open to suggestions, information, they start to care about her feelings, uh, what she would like to do. He starts to see the positives. He starts to not just, you know, he gets, he still sees the negatives, but he starts to see the positives and he wants to come back. That was for I John, I kid you not, some of these men, while we're leaving, so the ultrasound, when we're there, that she's in the ultrasound, and eventually the advocate comes back to get him if she's okay with him going back. And when the advocate comes and she'll knock on the door, I always ask them to hold her hand in the ultrasound. That that coming along, driving here with her, she's feeling good about who you are. You came through the door, she's feeling great, she feels proud. I got a guy that actually cares about me. It looks good all around. And then when you go back to that ultrasound room and you hold her hand during the procedure, it just lets her know I'm not just talking about being here. I'm here for you. And we hear these women talk about that, like they think I'm some like uh genius or something. They're like, you know, what I don't know what he said in that room back there, but that this has changed his life.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

And so what I wanted to say was when they're walking back Well, before I get to that question, I want to ask you so very often in pregnancy centers, when a woman's considering abortion, we educate, right? So we we talk about how far along you are, what your options are, what uh what an abortion actually could look like. And and her second, but you you do that with the men as well, don't you?

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Absolutely. So just to finish that last point, when I'm leaving and the advocate comes for him, this is what I was going to get to. They'll say, like, they'll joke around. This is this is a pretty regularly, though. Like, does this guy get paid? He should. That was some of the best conversation. Uh that was the first time in my life someone cared about me. And so I'm not just telling you what I think. These these men actually say it. That's the first time in my life I mattered. That's the first time in my life someone cared about me. Like, can I come back? Am I allowed to come back? Like, this is like a big deal. And it was simply 15 minutes of me investing in them. And also, John, do you I'll ask, do you mind if I follow up with you with with a text message, phone call? Absolutely, 100%. And then they'll some of them puzzled. This happened more than once, puzzled, and then they'll say, Well, let me give me my real number. That number I put on that paper really, that was just a number. Right. Let me give you my real number. But getting back to your point, so once they know they can trust me. So there's that old saying, uh, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Once they know that, and I'm in, I'll say, listen, the one of the big reasons why we love when the men come in is that we love to be able to provide information for you, the same information that she's receiving. And John, I've traveled uh the world in mission strips all over the world, and I've recognized that everyone wants two things in life. And I I share this openly. They want to know that they're loved, they want to know that they care they're cared for, but they also want to know the truth. And they come, you know, not knowing that that's what they were coming for. They came to support her, but they leave hearing the truth, seeing the truth, and it changes everything. Aside from me loving on them and them feeling love, the truth comes and when I share with them that you actually have choices. And I know right now it might seem like you only have one, but you actually have some choices. And we start to talk about their support system, which opens up that door to man, maybe, maybe we can do this. And then we talk about those things. But one of the important things that we do is we give them pamphlets, parenting, adoption, and abortion. And the abortion pamphlet is the facts, the truth about each of these steps in abortion. And we allow them to go through that and see that. And I said, you know, I'll say to them that you can Google this stuff, but you're really not sure if you're getting the truth. What we have done was we've gone to the doctors local and we've asked them to give us their information. And it's documented on the back of our pamphlet where we got the information. It's not our information, it's theirs. And I said, So I'd really want you to at least look at this. And they'll look and I'll leave to go check on the girl. When I come back and they're reading the pamphlet multiple times, they'll say, Well, she's not doing this. And they'll hold up the abortion pamphlet. And he'll say, Well, she's not doing this. I don't think she realizes all these side effects. I don't think she was told it's as easy as taking a Tylenol pill. She's thinking this stuff's easy. And I said, Well, listen, just you know, she's gonna probably be offered that pamphlet as well. We offer it to them. She might not take it, but this is where you can talk with her. And I encourage them to pause. work through the situations together. So yeah. Uh sharing those same medically accurate information with him is so important to us.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Can you can you tell us what the courageous dads program is really all about? Because I know you know we're talking about like the first visit to the center, but you have guys that have come back for months for years. And I know that you have quite a gathering, is it once a week where you have you have the guys come over or are the couples come together. It's it's a pretty big group that you have, right?

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Yeah, the the the the the uh education part of it is just off the charts and and so we we've incorporated we when I first came I really thought that's what I was getting into was you know how do we help these dad dads now become good dads? You know the quick questions that like I want them to always be thinking about is when the mom is pregnant every time she talks the baby hears her voice. Does the baby hear your voice? Are you around when the baby's born will the baby know your voice? And then really quick right behind it is is it a good voice? Is it a voice that that baby's loving do you talk to the baby do you sing to the baby do you read to the baby? These are things I've always thought about and when I came that's what we put together the we use Brightcourse uh video series and we're helping them be present and being active and learning to be good dads. The the basics of you know the baby's cries and and the whole we we bring in the Red Cross for infant infant C PR we we added layers to it but the biggest thing I came and I thought I was doing is aside from the medical part of it was helping them be good dads. And then I realized a third of these guys are borderline homeless. A third of these guys have been in and out of prison. And so they were realizing like how am I going to do this? Because everything you're teaching me in these classes I want but I gotta work. I gotta find the job I gotta you know I got prison style like I got background I got I'm not cut out for this. And so we started to work then on them personally as a person, not just the dad and learning how to be a good dad but our pizza night men's night packs the house and and they come and they want to learn about themselves. They're they're learning to be better people not just a good father. And the the one question that I combine with that is let me I put it this way let's fast forward your child now your girl your baby girl now is in first grade and you're there at the parent teacher conference because I know you'll be there and they they that just feels good to them. Like now we're talking like I'm actually sitting down people wouldn't even give me the time of day and now I'm in first grade parent teacher conference and the teacher asks or no I ask these guys what do you hope the teacher says about your daughter and they just take a step back and they're like wow I hope she's respectful. I hope she has manners I hope she treats everyone with respect dignity nothing about grace. It's all about who the person she's becoming and so this is so important that they realize that what they're doing now changes all that. Yes please thank you and you're welcome go a long way and these men when they text me yes please thank you yes please thank you it's changing the culture right that will change generations and with that that's pizza night and this was huge. Men's night we're still doing the courageous dads the video series on the second and fourth Thursdays pizza nights the third Thursdays well I had guys showing up on the first Thursday and there was nothing scheduled and so I would meet with them but I'm like well maybe I need to plug in a a first of the third and what I realized was there's two people in the story two adults in the story and the mother of the baby was important. As much as they were learning about that what I do I do premarital counseling, marriage counseling we brought in my premarital counseling class. They don't realize that's what it is I tell some of them that but we call it a relationship class. So on the first Thursday of the month both of them come in together and they learn how to love on each other and take care of each other. Um we talk often about there's nine billion people in the world and yet you're making her the one and so choosing to make her the one is important and your child needs to hear that and see that. So we do love languages, personality styles, conflict resolution we talk things about pillow talk. Like I I love saying like on a scale of one to ten this is the first question I ask in counseling. Anyway on a scale of one to ten John not using seven because that's too easy. You can think about your wife on a scale of one to ten not using seven how would you rate your relationship right now? And they're in a they're in there sitting side by side and they're giggling it's like date night the guy will say wow hmm if I can't use seven we have to be eight we have to be eight and I'm alright I'm good with that the girl's looking at him like hey if I can't use seven it's like six or five and I'll I'll say hold on a second hold on before you start fighting. But this is what the guy's thinking if I can't use seven he's like the bills are getting paid there's food on the table we have a roof over our head we're doing pretty good and if I can't use seven it's an eight six is a D in school right he knows they're better than that there's food on the table the bills are getting paid and there's a roof over their head she says in her mind when's the last time he told me he loved me when's the last time he held my hand when's the last time we went out on a date this is a six and so I get them to understand that they're they're both right. You know the number itself isn't necessarily important as much as recognizing she has needs he has he he has needs and and then working them out. And we talk about that. So the relationship class John is just it's our biggest class at a women's concern out of all of our group classes that we do the relationship class every week it's t it's tomorrow night and we'll have over twenty couple 20 people there. Over ten couples will be showing up for for date night where they get to learn how to love on each other.

SPEAKER_04 28:36

One second question so Mike I have not marriage counseling at at in the pregnancy clinic that's a really can you is there break course classes that go along with that marriage counseling piece?

SPEAKER_02 28:49

There there is you have to sift through them you have to find what what I found you know it's it's uh there there is good ones.

SPEAKER_04 28:56

I'm not yeah definitely so to just a really good idea I've not I don't know if that's an I don't I don't have a poll to know how many prancy clinics bring in marriage counseling but what a really good idea. Like that's just I mean that that needs to be echoed.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Yeah so I mean I I'm not one I I love that John asked because I told him like I have so much to share like this is tip of the iceberg stuff but I've done a wedding a couple that came in let me just tell you the story you wanna you want a love story? This this girl came in she's on medication pregnant met this guy at A and both have kids from previous relationships and they're fighting it's bad toxic she has a restraining order against him she realizes into it a little bit it was because she was off her meds and she was a little bit off anyway she finds out there's a fatherhood program and she says this should this would be good for him. Kept the restraining order he starts coming to the fatherhood program she's ca she's thinking if we're gonna co-parent I want him to at least learn some of this well they start coming then they realize there's a relationship class and they both were open to it. So she removes the restraining order they come to their first relationship class and you could see it she's just pointing at him letting him know like are you listening? Are you listening? And I could just see that it was like a battle and I knew the background by the third maybe fourth month uh she's laying her head on his shoulder they're talking through these things they're very vocal in the class about the questions in time nine months goes by baby's born they're working out their relationship baby's born on a Tuesday I think they left the hospital that Thursday and came to the relationship class before they even went home. I wouldn't recommend that I'm just saying they came to the relationship class because they said this is our family. This this is this is we're where we're at today because of this place here. And so they kept coming I do a fatherhood uh father's day uh training and it my father's day is always reminding them why they're here. And we go through a lot of good questions and it's open pizza night and such with gifts we give them father's you know father's day gifts but goals and his goals was over the next year that she would go back and get her GED that they would get married and find a new place to live. Well a month later three months later um she was already going for her GD but she graduated she texted me no Thursday she graduated from her her class she got her D G D because I knew she was going in for it. That Saturday she texts me and said I have a uh a texting I I could share that later but I heavily on follow-up with these guys. We're talking communicating and she texts me and said hey Mike he proposed and she sent me a picture of the ring and he proposed he said if she graduates he's holding that overhead she wants her to get her GD he proposed well I met with him for eight months after that on premarital counseling and did their wedding and in the wedding was couples from our program and then sitting in the seats at the wedding was couples from our program. Not just in the wedding party. The couples still together they have since had another child together and they're now actively involved in a local church helping with VBS. It's it's a story that like reminds me the full picture of why we're here. It's it's from that entry level marketing to the man to bringing him into understanding his part to choosing life to having the baby learning to be a good dad learning to get a good job and helping him with that to now taking care of the family. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

So before our time ends I I just want to ask you just one or two more things I think would be very helpful. So if you're if you're a small pregnancy center or it doesn't even matter the size if you're a pregnancy center that wants to start a program like the one that you have or restart a program like the one that you have what what would be some suggestions for them? Like what what type of person are we looking for? So I know the pregnancy center that that I oversaw we really struggled finding the the right person to to lead that program. Yeah my own experience is it seems like the the the the one who's leading the program just comes from a different neighborhood than the the client who's coming into the pregnancy center.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

Yeah so go ahead sorry John no that's it I think you know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Yeah it it's it's interesting because I I I can speak for myself just that I I've been a pastor, a youth pastor and a pastor for over twenty five years. And I was one though prior to coming to Christ I wasn't just a non believer. I was lost I was confused I was hurting I went through divorce my mom was married three times she's amazing I've been with the same guy now for forty years but I lived through this. We bounced around I lived in the projects of Pittsburgh I was poor we were very poor I got into drugs I got into craziness never sent to prison but all this to say I was lost and when I became a believer I recognized grace I truly understood grace that this is something I do not deserve. In fact I live knowing that I have received everything already in Christ. And so for me the mindset has changed it's it's how I've coached wrestling coaching wrestling recruiting the kids that were like me rem allowing them to know hey I heard John often you know that this is this this is why your mom left you like we were living with our grandma this is why your you know this is why every time I got in trouble like reminded me of how bad I was right reminded me that this is why your mom left you when I was a little bit older and the second divorce happened both my brothers left two to stepdads and grandma left to people in my life were walking out on me. These men experienced that their whole life they feel like people have walked out on them. When I created the mentor program I made sure that there's these mentorees the number one thing is that they don't walk out on these kids. They're gonna show up at the appointments because it's important that these kids these men start to realize we're not walking out on you. Taking it even further to say not only are we not walking out on you, we're we we created a whole program for you. This is what we've done. And so finding a person that maybe has walked in their shoes finding a person that that truly does understand grace and understand all that they've been forgiven of finding a person that you know even if you grew up in the church with Christ walking to at least understand what they're going through to be able to ask questions. There's no greater thing than to ask questions. There's a saying from a a TV show that I grabbed onto it's called be curious not judgmental I want you to hear that again be curious not judgmental. Here's this guy he already feels like he's an awful person. He already knows his story he already knows he's a nobody he already knows he doesn't matter he's been told that his whole life how about you be the one just to ask questions you know like where he's been what he's been through where he's gone really invest in him and it flips it so then everything starts to change because he realizes that you're proud of him he's important. So John real fast it's finding someone that you I'm I I want to make be hesitant that I'm not saying you need to find someone that grew up on the other side of the tracks. It could be someone that was grew up in the church but we got to be curious not judgmental.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

Very good very good so I'm sure I think after this podcast is is viewed that a lot of people are going to have questions and a lot of people are going to want to know more about your program because like you said yourself we've only touched the the tip of the iceberg and I know I know your program goes very deep.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

So how can people get a hold of you if if they have questions Yeah it's it's again uh John I think I I like thank you for that you know I always this is my point that I I try to drive home is that the father is not a side conversation in an unexpected pregnancy. He's part of the story. Uh that's what I keep sharing he's part of the story. Let's bring him in. They can get a hold of me on our websites everywhere it has my number I I'd be willing to if anyone uh do you want me to give like my what is your website what's your website courage starts here courage starts here dot com and that's our outreach one my number's on there also uh we we have it's called pregnancy father I'm sorry fatherhood lancaster father all one word fatherhoodlancaster dot com and I'd be willing love to talk to people I love doing this I I've my whole life has been changed by these men.

SPEAKER_04 38:22

So Jacob do you have any uh final f follow-up questions yeah I'm I'm so glad you're on here Mike and you're you're just highlighting such an important piece such an important puzzle piece for this you know for complete care and and that and your talk about this relationship class is just so spot on for needing to be uh shared and talked about and considered as people as as as pregnancy clinic leadership is hearing this and different pro-life leaders you know bringing the you know the importance of the father is really can't be underestimated is such an important part of of the decision and what's going on in an in a pregnancy that's not expected.

SPEAKER_02 39:05

Yeah. Yeah. Uh just let me um Jacob can I test touch on this quick years back when I came we actually went upstream too and we put a youth program together getting into the public schools private schools and teaching them about relationship education and it was teaching about their goals and let's focus on your goals. There's a time for sex but uh is that really where you were where you want to be right now when you got all these goals and it's it's a whole curriculum.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

That's uh that's how Mike and I actually uh met each other um years back. I my pregnancy center was the recipient of a grant and we partnered with several others to launch these school programs.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

And that's when uh a woman's concern did that and Mike came along and helped help get into the schools Sergeant but that that curriculum is it's relationship health it has the love languages it has personality styles so so to get back to your question Jacob about Brightcourse uh this curriculum I've adapted it into my premarital counseling stuff so if you want curriculum if someone's saying boy you know Mike has this pat this background we don't we can't all find a guy like that there is curriculum out there um that you can put together monthly relationship classes right out of the curriculum so that's that's available and I can I can touch on if anyone contacts me I can touch on any of that I'm I'm a pretty open book with it it's you know for me it's it's I would say it this way like you you do not need a perfect program. You need to just intentionally engage fathers and everything will change.

SPEAKER_04 40:36

Awesome yeah you guys are great yeah well this has been great any final words John or Mike before we wrap things up just my my tagline is the father is not a side conversation he's part of the story. Amen awesome well Mike would you uh wrap up our podcast with a prayer and then those who are listening can jo well we can all join in.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

Thank you so much yeah Father God we thank you for today wow wherever we're at um the weather that you provide is exactly what we need we thank you for that we thank you for caring about our everyday life we thank you for the way that you chose to love us that when we know we are loved we can love others and so thank you for these two men that love you that care about you that care about women and women and families we father we know that when we invest in the man when we invest in the father everything changes and so we thank you for paving the road for us allowing us to know that our handshake with these men is to love them is to love on them the way that you treated the prostitute the woman at the well the blind man the leper uh your handshake was I'm here for you how can I help you and so thank you for leading us thank you for uh these pregnancy centers that are boldly stepping out uh for you to reach these families and we just pray abundance of of grace for them as they reach out um but also we love to see that fruit father and so we give you all the glory we thank you for this day we love you and pray these things in Jesus' name amen.