SPEAKER_01 0:53

The Kingdom Mitchell. The Kingdom Mitchell.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

For the Kingdom is yours, the Kingdom is yours.

SPEAKER_05 4:36

Welcome to the ProLife Team podcast. I'm Jacob. I'm here with Pam and Monica. Pam, go ahead and share a little bit about your backstory, and then we'll dive into the safe haven boxes.

SPEAKER_07 4:49

Awesome. Well, Jacob, it's good to be with you again. And I know uh most of you are familiar, hopefully, with who I am. Um I am uh a speaker, uh pro-life advocate, have been for many years, spent a lot of years traveling and speaking to kids about sex. So usually I'm just known as a sex lady, but I'm also the executive producer of Brightcourse uh as well. So many of you will know me. Uh the pregnancy centers watching will know me uh from that. And then I also work with St. Haven Baby Blackes. So I'm just excited to to for you to meet my friend Monica. And I think the story of how we met and what God did uh with St. Haven Babylasses and with Monica's life is just so exciting. So Jacob, I was uh Israel uh Monica, I'm gonna say 15, 16 years ago when we first met. I'm I'm thinking it was like 2012, somewhere around there. And um I got a call from a pro-life attorney out of Michigan by the name of Rebecca Keasling. And uh there had been a senator in the state of Indiana, Senator Murdoch, running for Senate, and on his campaign trail he made a comment that children who were conceived in rape were planned by God. And and uh of course the other side, as they like to do when we have this discussion, started uh screaming and yelling and going, Oh no, Murdoch said that God plans rape and uh and really, you know, making you know, causing a problem that way. And so Rebecca called Rebecca was uh conceived and rape. I myself was conceived and rape and I told my story to multiple audiences at that point. So she called me up and she said, Come to this press conference, we just need to put a face to to the to to the situation and and speak for those the children, those of us who are conceived and rape. Well, at the press conference, I meet this amazing and I always call her a little girl, she just seems so little to me, just a tiny little fireball who got up and told her story of being conceived and raped and abandoned. And of course, she was in Indiana and uh she came up to me afterwards, Jacob, and said what I've heard on the road countless times in the twenty-eight years I've been traveling. So I I want to be a speaker, I want to tell my story, and my typical reaction, Jacob, is don't quit your day job. Because you know, it's kind of one of those things, either you can do it or you can't, and I really, you know, can't really help with you. Well this Monica Kelsey was persistent. She was like, No, I I think I can do this. So I was heading to South Africa for a two-week tour to speak to students and pro-life organizations across the country. And I said, Monica, if you can join me, if you can pay your flight, I'll I'll take care of you the rest of the way. Um come with me and and I'll give you a chance to share your story as we travel to South Africa. And I I didn't think she would take me up on it, Jacob really. And she did. And then after she did and bought her ticket, I like I don't know this person that I have just invited to literally live with for two weeks. And so uh it was a job. That was my only leap of faith. Monica took all the rest of the leaps of faith from there. But at the very last church that we were speaking in in Cape Town, South Africa, we're walking in and we see what looks like a bank deposit box, but like it it's installed in the church, just in the foyer as you're walking in on the outside. And we asked the pastor, what is that? And he said, They had so many abandoned babies right around their church. The last one, some boys were playing soccer, they saw a garbage bag that was moving. They opened the garbage bag, and in it was an infant newborn, uh little boy with placenta still attached, which is probably why he survived. They rescued that boy, and the pastor just said, Well, and a a couple from their church adopted in a name to Moses, which we thought was just awesome. And then he the pastor just said, No more. I'm not gonna have these babies in garbage bags on my church property. And he uh installed and built this device, and um and so anyway, I will let Monica tell you the story from there because then it gets crazier.

SPEAKER_06 9:18

Well, you know, when she asked me to go to South Africa, I came home and I was I was telling my husband, like, this lady just asked me if she if I wanted to go, and and uh all I have to do is pay my flight ticket. And I'm like, who in their right mind would say no to that? Like two weeks in another country, and uh, and so literally I I jumped on this plane with someone that I had only met once prior to, and uh, and it was totally a God thing. Um, the entire trip was just perfected by God because we were at the place that we needed to be on the very last leg of our, we call it a tour, uh, a speaking tour. But so as we were walking into this church, I see this baby safe, and instantly my mind goes to the safe haven law in America. Now I'm a retired firefighter and medic. So, you know, in America, at any state in America, you can walk into a hospital and hand the hand a child that you don't want or can't care for and um and surrender that child under the Safe Haven Act that's in all 50 states, and I knew that was was available in the states, but I had never seen anything like this box on the side of this church. And so I was like, what is this and what is it used for? And he was telling us exactly what Pam had said, and I was, I was like, does this really work? Like, I know this is a third world country, but does this really work? And uh, and then on the flight back from Cape Town, South Africa, uh, on a Delta napkin, and we all know that every great story happens 37,000 feet in the air on a Delta Napkin, and and I hand drew my version of the baby box. And I came back to America and we started the uphill battle of of putting this organization together from the ground up. And to say it has been a struggle is that that doesn't even give it justice. It has been a huge struggle because what we had to do is we had to get people to understand that putting a baby in a box was a good thing when the alternative was a dumpster. And what what most people were doing was, what do you mean putting a baby in a box is a good thing? It's like you have to finish the sentence because the alternative is a dumpster. So we want something better for this child. And so that really was the start of me trying to get this thing going. And and I walked into a builder, I took this little napkin that I had from this Delta napkin, and I walked into this builder and I said, Hey, I want you to build me a baby box. And he's like, Oh, what? Like, what are you doing with this baby box? I'm like, I'm gonna put it in fire stations, I'm gonna save babies. And uh, and he's like, Well, uh, you know, I'll build you whatever you want for 700 bucks. And and so I wrote a check from my husband's account and walked out of there like a boss, thinking that I I had just won the lottery because this guy's gonna build me what I wanted. And then I went back two weeks later and literally it's just a shell of a box. There's nothing else to it, just a shell of a box. But that's what I needed to get the visual out. And I think Christ used that moment for me to carry this light little tote-looking box to the state house and try to get the legislators to understand the problem. And the more we dug into the problem in America, the more it kind of opened all of our eyes. Indiana was having anywhere from two to three dead babies in our state every year from abandonment in dumpsters, trash cans alongside highways. And so I thought, if I can just save those babies, those two to three babies a year in in Indiana, you know, that that that was my goal. And obviously Christ had a way bigger um job for us uh we didn't see back then. And so I uh I launched the very first baby box at my fire station in Woodburn, Indiana. Um, and I know this had never been done in American history before, and most people are probably wondering who in their right mind would put a box in the side of a firehouse, uh a prototype box at that to save babies' lives that's never been done in America before. And my husband is the mayor of our city, so it was actually pretty easy to talk him into letting me put that box in if he wanted to sleep with his wife at night. So we put that box in and um we got we've had two babies at our fire station and we're a town of 2,000 people. And so if that doesn't give you hope for these bigger cities, um, I I don't know what will because we we have been able to grow this organization. Well, from day one, we've grown this organization and we've stood on principle, we've stood on values, we've stood on faith, and we've we've uh stood on anonymity. Some of these women want uh an anonymous surrender. Not everyone, but if they do want an anonymous surrender, that's where we step in. And then we show them hope and we show them love and we show them just you know, God's grace. Um, and I think they really appreciate that. We get a lot of comments from these moms that contact us after they've surrendered in our boxes, and we now have 468 boxes across America and 27 states. Like I said, Christ had a way bigger. I I I didn't envision it this being this big. I just wanted to save a few babies in Indiana, and here we are now in 27 states. So it's it's been a ride, but Pam's been beside me from day one uh in South Africa, and she stands beside me today. Um, we've literally grown this company, um, this ministry uh to what it is today, and we have saved hundreds of babies and hundreds of moms.

SPEAKER_05 14:29

Wow. Well, I'd love to hear the two of you talk about, you know, what what this, you know, go into the details of what a baby box is or or where it's been placed, like in, you know, going, you know, describing firehouses and places where it's been placed, um, and just answer all the questions that people probably have regularly about a baby box when they haven't heard about, haven't seen one in person and don't know much.

SPEAKER_06 14:56

Yeah, you know, when we first started, one of the things that I really wanted is I wanted churches. I wanted the backbone of the hands and feet of Christ to be able to be involved in this, not realizing what we were going to see um at the beginning and and kind of it it stayed consistent. But um, churches, I that's what I wanted to have in the law was uh fire stations, hospitals, and churches. And after we got the very first baby in one of our boxes in Michigan City, I quickly realized that a church was no place for a newborn infant that was not born in a hospital. And so we quickly kind of turned our our our interest to just fire stations and hospitals. And so fire stations and hospitals are the only place that we will install a baby box because there is medical professionals on the other side of that wall. 95% of the babies that are coming through the baby box program are within 12 hours, 24 hours old. They're not born in hospitals. So having a baby box at a church where the amazing 70-year-old woman that answers the phone is, you know, sitting next to the baby box and the baby box goes off and a baby's put in there and this baby needs medical care. Obviously, that's not going to be the best choice for us if this baby needs medical care. So what we do is we we actually contract with the fire stations and the hospitals and we we cut a hole in the side of the wall. And I say we, it's not me and Pam. It's literally contractors that do that. It would be a mess if we did it. Um, but these contractors cut a hole in the side of the wall like they're putting a window in. And then they slide the baby box in. So the inside of the baby box is on the inside of the firehouse, and the outside where a mom places baby is on the outside of the firehouse. So literally, this is like another door into the firehouse. Um, and it's in it, it most of them are in a conspicuous place. So it's not like under a bunch of lights in the front of the fire station, just you know, grabbing attention. Um, it's for these moms to have the anonymous option of surrender if they if they choose. And the box, it it uh it has three alarms on it. The first alarm is when the door opens. So when mom opens that outside door to place her baby inside, um, the first alarm goes off. The second alarm, when she places that baby inside the medical bassinet, that's where the second alarm goes off. Now that second alarm is not connected to the first alarm, and that is a safety feature of the baby box. Um, because if one of those uh alarms were to fail, because we know elect electronics fail from time to time, um, even with the the most stringent protocols, we wanted to make sure that there was a backup plan if that ever got if that ever happened. And so what we did was we we made them um to where they would go off if the other one didn't. And so um, and then once the baby is placed inside, after two alarms have gone off and mom shuts the door, the door actually locks. So no one can come back and take this infant out of this box except from the inside of the fire station, which is your medical professionals from the inside of the firehouse. And then there's also a power-off alarm. So if this firehouse ever loses power and it doesn't have a generator, which we don't find very many firehouses that don't have generators anymore, but this is just another safety feature of this box, um, it will send a signal to 911 saying that the box is without power. And so the fire station is trained to come down and lock the box because the box is no good with no power. And so um the box gets locked, and uh then it's when the power comes back on, then they reopen the box to make sure that it's operational. The fire station, uh, they test this box weekly and they do two visual checks daily on every box that's in uh their firehouse or in a in a hospital. Um and um and then they notify us within two hours uh of any surrender that they've had in their baby box so that we can keep really good stats. I'll tell you it's amazing getting a call from a fire chief letting us know that there was a baby place in their box. It's it's as exciting as it is um that we've saved the life of a child, we also um understand that there's a mother on the other side of that box who's having the worst day of her life. And so we try to reach out to her as well. Um when Pam and I started this organization, we knew that we couldn't just be, you know, trying to save babies, we had to try and save moms as well. And so Pam's done an amazing job of structuring our hotline and our counseling program um to where when these moms need somebody to talk to um or just somebody to listen, uh, we have this counseling program that is set up now for these moms. It's free for them. They do it via Zoom, they can keep their camera off. Um, uh they can give us, you know, their a fake name if they want. Um we just we just want to work with them to help them find peace in the decision that they've made. And and there's been a lot of moms that have come back after they went through the counseling and just thanked us um for not only loving on their babies, but for loving on these moms as well.

SPEAKER_07 19:42

Yeah, you know, Jacob, I ran I actually answered the hotline for about eight years in the beginning, and then it got a little bit too much for for me and my crazy left. I think when COVID hit, I was like, I can do all these things now because I can't travel and speak. And then about two years after that, I'm like, oh my goodness, I can't do five full-time jobs here. But um, but I I will say it was such a an amazing experience for me. And because I brought to that hotline after 20 some years of working with women, experiencing unintended pregnancies, both in pregnancy centers and uh and and in the work that I've done, um, it really was a natural thing. And one of the things that we've said is this this box is a last resort. This is not the first option. And if if these mothers will call us ahead of delivery, more than a couple of hours ahead of delivery would be helpful, then we would have an opportunity to share with her all of the options available to her and and help that is available to her. And because I have such an amazing network of over 2,800 identity centers across our country, it's been really good we're able to connect her with that help if there is time for that and and really encourage her to consider maybe it's just she needs some help with parenting, maybe there's some issues going on with the biological father, maybe there's a housing problem, she's homeless, and and you know in our pregnancy centers we have the ability to walk alongside mothers and and and and do what we can to help if that's what they need. Um also I think we've had quite a few mothers make a decision uh instead of the same haven surrender, which they originally were looking to because they didn't want anybody to know. But then after thinking about it, they thought, no, I can actually choose the family. I can actually have a connection with my child. And so maybe making an adoption plan is a better option for me. And and so we've been able to connect them with resources and adoption counselors and and and help them make an adoption plan. And then obviously as a last resort, um we we the the box is available and and we want them to to know that they can use it. We want them to know what the law is. One of the things that's so amazing about our program is that inside of the box we put an orange bag, and in this orange bag, and they they know it, they've seen it. Monica's like a TikTok star, I don't know, millions of followers. So uh we know that that's how we've reached our girls. We know that's that's what they've been watching. And so they see us talk about the orange bag and then it's there. In fact, I had a mother call my hot on after she surrendered uh in in a box, a baby box, and she was absolutely distraught. And she was like, I forgot the orange bag And I'm like, sweetheart, we can go right here to the website, all of the contents are right there. Don't worry. But the reality is she's got information there about her legal rights, what's going to happen, what's a process. Is if she wants reunification and changes her mind, she has information about that. She also has medical information. As we stated, these moms have had probably zero prenatal care. Many of them have told no one. And they weren't the baby wasn't birthed in a hospital. So we want her to make sure that she accesses care if she needs it. And all that information is there for her, and information about a registry and how she can contact and get counseling if she's ready to talk to someone, what that process would look like. So, and all the resources in her own area. So each fire station is able to include resources uh into that orange bag that are local if they so choose. Also, we have the human uh the uh trafficking hotline there as well. Uh we just want to make sure that that mom gets the help that she needs. And one of the things that's been fascinating to me is, you know, we've we have people not as much anymore, Jacob, but I mean, really, people are coming around and understanding that this is saving lives. But, you know, in the beginning, people thought we were crazy, and some of the stuff that we got bad. We probably still are a little bit. Yeah, I'm sure we're stuck. But we they would they would say, well, the mom might need help, and we need the face-to-face situation so that the firefighter or the paramedic or the the staff can offer her help. And I'm sitting here going, here's the reality. These firefighters, bless them, are not trained. They don't understand, many of them don't even understand the safe haven law. And if if this girl walks in, they're gonna be in more shock than anything else. Like this woman just walked in and tried to hand me a baby, and I don't even know what to say, and I don't know what to do. And are they gonna have any of those resources available for her? Absolutely not. And but in our situation, and it and certainly in all the fire uh houses that we have boxes in, we've trained those guys because she may not use the box, she might walk into that station, which she has every right to do. But these firefighters are prepared. They know what to do, they have the orange bag, they know not to say things like, Are you sure you really want to do this? Which is judgment, but to be able to say, Hey, uh, thank you for keeping your baby safe. This is an amazing choice you've made, and we've got it from here. That's what she needs to hear, not questioning uh about the decision that she's made. And so we we really believe that the the box itself has done a lot of things. It's trained first responders in a way they've never been trained before. And the other thing the box has done is that in all of the states where we have installed boxes, the uh awareness around the safe haven law has has gone way up. Uh, Monica and I were thrilled to just recently hear from the state of Texas. We've only been in Texas for two years, I believe, Monica, right? I think yeah, 2024, the first box went in. And um we have I think 11 or 12 boxes now, I'm not sure in Texas.

SPEAKER_06 25:49

We've had seven babies so far in just the state of Texas in our boxes in two years.

SPEAKER_07 25:53

Seven babies in the boxes. But the thing is, this Texas had the highest abandonment rate since 1999 that the state did. And and so they were in a kind of a bad we kept talking about Texas. We're like, you this is way too much. You're having 28, 30, 32 abandonments of babies every year. And um, when the boxes went in, we got a letter from the department from the Department of Children's Services, the woman who's the head of what they call the baby Moses. They they call it the baby Moses Law. And she's in charge of the actual state hotline for safe haven and baby Moses Law. And she said they have had such an amazing uh um uptick in babies being surrendered face to face, not even about the boxes because the awareness is there. Women are walking into fire stations and doing the right thing. We've had seven uh babies surrendered in our boxes in Texas, and the bigger stat is that the abandonment rate has plummeted. It is plummeted. And so what we're saying is this works, and and just a baby in a box is not the success rate alone. The fact that women know the same haven law, that they know they have options, that they uh know that this is a legal way and can avoid prosecution if they abandon their child. Um, that this this is it's it's just an amazing thing. And I think I think when we saw it happen in Indiana, in Indiana, Jacob, because the Indiana um uh abandonment rate rate went to nothing for for many years um after we were there. And and it was like I remember Monica saying to me someday, this crazy thing, this crazy idea actually works. And it is, it it really is working. And and again, our heart is listen, Jake, if I've said this, and I know the heart of the pro-life people that are watching and have consistently watched your podcast here, but um, I want women to have every option available to them that does not involve the death of their child. That's what we're after. We want women to have every option and that doesn't involve the death of their child. And so this is what this is about. This is that last ditch, 11th hour. The mom just cannot bring herself to make any other option. This is better than the dumpster. And um, both Monica and I uh uh having similar uh conception stories, you know, being that unwanted child, being the one that everybody says, well, that that child doesn't matter. Um, but both of us being adopted by amazing families, we're adopted and loved like Monica's got such an amazing family. I've got to meet her adoptive parents, and I know she's met mine, and and we we're just two adoptees who are extremely grateful for our lives and extremely grateful for the for adoption and the and the fact that you know we were able to have a family who could take us in. Some of our big retractors uh or detractors, whatever you want to call, uh uh the the Jacob the Crazy people that show up at the state house and say we're terrible. Well, it's it's a big chunk of them are anti-adoption altogether. In fact, one of the women women that has just pounded us forever and she just needs to get a life, um, is is head of this organization called Bastard Nation. And what what is so sad about this sentiment coming from is it they just keep acting like adoption is horrible and and uh every child deserves a right to know where they came from, their it their genetics, their heredity, you know, you know, whatever, their story. And I'm sitting here going, let's see, death in a dumpster or knowing my story. I let me just weigh that for a minute. I it it it's hard for you to imagine, but the I prefer life, actually. The fact that I got to live far more important than knowing who my biological parents are or work. And and I'm so grateful for for the family that God gave me. And you know, God said um in Jeremiah that he would be a father to the fatherless. And I really believe that that my father isn't a rapist, my my father is God himself who protected me and and gave me an earthly father as well, who's an amazing man who's now with Jesus. But uh that family was the gift to me from God Himself, and adoption can be that. And we want these moms in crisis to know, but we got Monica, you'll see great pictures right up behind me, if you can see, that's one of our babies who was surrendered in a baby box, um, who came back to that fire station, and we got a chance to hold her. We want these kids to know you have hope and a future, and God has a plan for you, and and you were rescued. And first of all, you were protected by the biological mother who cared enough to make sure she she kept you safe because she wanted better for you than she could than she could give. Let me tell you, I've talked to these moms, they love their children, they love their children. This is a very selfless, loving choice that she's making. And really, mom is the one taking on all the pain here. Biological mother is taking every bit of the pain in this situation because the the the child's gonna get an amazing family and life, which is fantastic. The adoptive family is gonna get a baby that they've prayed for and longed for and waited for forever. Uh, the person who's gonna have to handle the grief and and and all of the pain in this situation is is the is the mother surrendering the biological parent. So so we we believe there are heroes. My own biological mother is my hero, uh, that she loved me enough to give me my life, even in very difficult circumstances. And so we think that about all of the mothers who have chosen that. And and just a quick reminder is that we have 1.4 million couples waiting to adopt an infant every year in this country. And literally the latest data I have from 2024 is that there are only, and this stat remains pretty uh consistent over the years here, 55,000 non-relative infant adoptions in the country. So just think about that math for a minute. You've got 1.5 million couples waiting, and yet we are only having about 55,000 non-relative infant adoptions uh yearly. The reality is only one less than 1% of women in an unintended pregnancy will choose adoption or stay paving. Less than 1%. And so the reality is there are a lot of families out there who desperately want to be parents who are not going to be. And this is one of the the this selfless gift of this biological parent to that family is pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_05 33:12

Wow. So I've got a couple of questions. One is how do people become aware, you know, people who might use the baby box, how how are they possibly getting aware that it exists?

SPEAKER_06 33:26

That's actually one of the hardest jobs that we have is educating the public. Um, and it has to be a grassroots effort. Um, for us, though, social media has been our number one um it it has literally changed the course of Safe Haven baby boxes because I don't know what it is about TikTok and me being on TikTok, but I can stand in front of a baby box and do a video and it gets millions of views. And so that little video that I'm standing in front of a baby box just saying, hey, you know, this is the safe haven law is educating millions daily. We had one video on um social media that had 57 million views. 57 million people. Now it did bring out the crazies, of course, you know, um all those kind of people, but we get consistently told that they've seen us on TikTok or Facebook or or something like that. Most of it's TikTok. And we have to be where they're at. And so, you know, when when they when someone first asked me to do a video in front of a baby box, I'm like, I'm in my 50s. Like, that's just stupid. Like, why am I gonna stand in front of a baby box and do a video? And the first video we did got like 20 million views, and I was like, oh, shut the front door. Like, we we might have we might be on to something. And so I started posting more, and then I started post posting more about my life. And you know, some people they just they they love the drama of somebody's life. And so some people just come along for my drama. Um, but I'll tell you, it's been a it's been an amazing ride to see all of the people that have been educated simply because of a few videos that we put out every year. Now, we also do billboards, um, you know, crisis pregnancy centers. When a mother goes into one of those, they need to have a little brochure in that packet, you know, when they find out they're pregnant that they take home. Some of those mother, some of those women never go back to that crisis pregnancy center. So we have to get that into the hands of these mothers uh immediately. Like we said, you know, these babies aren't born in hospitals. Um, and so, uh, but it is a last resort option. We understand that that this can't be the first choice that this mother chooses. We want her to look at all of her options. Um, a safe option, parenting, an adoption plan, walking into a facility and handing the child to a person, or utilizing the safe haven baby box, which is electronically monitored. It called not calls 911 on its own. I mean, it's you know, it's temperature controlled. So if this baby's in this box for less, less than five minutes on the average of two minutes. Um, but we're giving her the driver's seat. We're saying, these are your options, and we we we will help you on any one of these options. You just have to make that choice. We can't make that choice for you, nor would we make that choice for you. And you know, one thing that, and Pam kind of touched on a little bit um on adoption is you know, we've been so blessed in our lives, but you look out, and there are so many people that would just put a negative spin on it and and and say, gosh, I could never do that, or why would you do that? How can you just give your baby away? And it's like, we will never judge anyone, we will never shame anyone. Yeah, our hotline is is very well trained. Pam has done a really good job of training our counselors that it is their decision. They have to make it. We can't tell them what's best for them. They can't, we can't tell them what we would do. We're not in their shoes. We don't know what what they're you know, they're handling at home. Um, the only thing that we can do is give them their options, explain them so they're uh understand them, and then let them choose and then follow up with walking alongside her as she, you know, treks this path, because that's gonna be the hard part. You know, what one of the first parents that actually contacted us for counseling, I I was talking to Pam and and uh and Pam was, you know, she was this mother was having second thoughts, and Pam's like, well, who wouldn't have second thoughts? This is a this is a a very emotional situation. Um, we just have to get the crisis under control right now. And and so um that's what we do. You know, we we try to get the con the crisis under control and then get her into a positive mindset of understanding, you know, the value of what she did instead of just looking at all the negative that everybody else is telling her.

SPEAKER_05 37:35

Monica, would you Yeah, you know what? Oh, go ahead, Pam.

SPEAKER_07 37:38

I'm just gonna quick say this. It was really exciting. Just a short while ago, I got an email from a friend of mine, her name is Janelle Basham. She runs Brave Love, which is an amazing organization nationally that walks alongside birth parents, women who choose uh adoption. And we've included Brave Love's information in our orange bag for our moms. And I was just thrilled that one of our moms actually did reach out to Janelle recently and and is willing to to uh you know come forward at least their nice group and and get that support she needs as an adoptive mom because a safe haven decision is a decision for adoption, it's just anonymous and closed. So um, so that that's exciting that we have those resources.

SPEAKER_05 38:23

Awesome. So so Monica, would you go into more detail about the pamphlet that Pricey Clinics can hand out and maybe how they might hand it out to who and what's in that pamphlet.

SPEAKER_06 38:35

Yeah, so we've we've done a lot of work on the marketing of these pamphlets to make sure that we're not pushing women to baby boxes, we're just giving them information on the safe haven law. Um and the safe haven law is in every state in America, every hospital in America is a safe haven location. And so what we do is we we put on these brochures our hotline number. Because if somebody in Washington State gets a hold of that brochure, we don't have boxes in Washington State. So we're gonna have to make sure that she understands she's got to walk in and hand that child to a person. And so the number on these brochures is pivotal because our hotline counselors are highly trained in each state's safe haven law. Every state's safe haven law is different. And so if we tell a woman in California that she has seven days to surrender her child, that's not true. Even though it's true in the next state over, it's not true in California. It's only three days. And so we have to get the person who's calling us to understand what their state's safe haven law is. And so those little brochures, we actually hand them out to crisis pregnancy centers. I go to tons of events and I'll give them like 50 to 100, and I say, just take these to your printer, you know, print these off. You don't have to buy them through us. We're not trying to make money here. We're just giving you the information. Um, but this is perfect because of the marketing that we've put behind it. And that hotline actually rings two to three times per day. Last year, we had 2,100 calls and texts on our hotline, on our crisis safe haven hotline. And so it's working. What we're putting out there is is working. We're getting the calls. Um, and and another thing that we uh we should probably mention is in June of this year, we have always said that the baby box is a last resort option. We want a woman to walk in and hand the child to a person if she will. Well, in June, we had nine surrenders in 21 days. So for 21 days, we had nine babies and nine moms that came through the baby box program or the hotline. And um, four of those babies were through the baby box itself. But the other five, this is what's incredible. The other five were at baby box locations that the the parent handed the child to the firefighter. And so even though there's a baby box in the wall, very easy for her to just place this baby inside. When she talked to our counselor, she agreed that walking in was the best option for her, not what was best for us. We we gave her her options and she chose what she wanted to do. And that happened five times in the month of June alone. And uh and and interstate, interesting enough, Kentucky had three of those five. So we know that some states are working harder at getting the information into these schools and colleges and stuff like that and the crisis pregnancy centers. Um, but it it's it's incredible to watch just sitting back, the thing that we dreamed of, you know, 10 years ago, 11 years ago, and started to put into play. Uh, we are seeing that happen today where women are walking into locations and surrendering their child and not using the baby box, uh, which is a good thing, you know. I know it's crazy. We're going around America trying to get boxes and buildings, but we we don't advocate for the boxes. We advocate for a mother doing what she wants to do, what's best for her, not for us.

SPEAKER_07 41:50

Yeah, and we should mention, Jacob, that that Monica launched a website um that is amazing. It's called safehavened.org. So safe havened ed.org. And on that site, your pregnancy centers, any of you where all of you can do this, you can go get educated on your own state. And when it's there's resources there, and the PDF of the rat cards she's talking about for your pregnancy center are all there. So you can click on that, you can download the PDF, take it to your printer, make some rat cards, uh, take that information, has a little QR code that will take the the girls directly to the SHBB website where for parents in in crisis and get all the information that they need. Uh, you'll also see on that site, you'll be able to see your own state safe haven law. So you'll be able to see what the uh what the age of surrender needs to be, what are uh legal surrender uh locations, as well as whether or not they have boxes there. Uh, there's just a lot of great information on that site. We also have for high school teachers or middle school teachers, uh we've got an entire lesson plan where they could teach a class. I've I've done your lesson plan for you. Just download it. And it has links that you can watch show your students' videos, but educate your students about the safe haven law and make sure that they know. So we've tried to put on that website. Monica did an amazing job. She really designed uh it herself. And also, there's uh training for first responders and and uh hospital staff there as well that that they can access. If they have a baby box, that's for free. We we train all of our first responders for free, but there's a way they can access training for a small cost as well on that site. So so there's a ton of resources at Safe Haven Ed. We really encourage you to do that. If you're a pregnancy center listening and you have Bright Course, if you uh and you've heard that we say this a thousand times, so you're gonna hear me again. You have if you uh pay for the platform, you have a Ferrari, and most of you are driving it like a Toyota. There is so much on that platform for you that you're not utilizing. So we have Bright Lessons because you're what we send our our our clients. We also have bright training, but we have a new thing called Bright Staff. And on Bright Staff, if you go to Life Moments, you'll see me on there doing a whole 70-minute presentation about the Safe Haven baby boxes and the Safe Haven Law and why, as a pregnancy center, you need to have that awareness and make sure that you're that your the women coming through your door know. And here's the thing we hope they don't need it. We hope you know they've chosen life and everything goes beautifully and they don't end up homeless or with a boyfriend that's beating them or some other horrible tragedy later into the present pregnancy. But we don't Know what life will bring for her. She needs to have the information. And the other thing is, she she walks in circles of young women who also need that information. So even if she herself isn't the one that needs to know, she has friends and and and other family members that might need to know as well. So we want to make sure that all of the girls know that that safe have and surrender is an option for them and that they can keep their baby safe. So uh a lot of great resources for you uh at our pregnancy center, certainly you're the ones uh face to face with women experiencing unintended pregnancy. And so that's why it's so important that you're aware. I had someone recently ask me, Monica, they said, Well, we need to make sure all the OB offices have this information. Well, that's all nice and cute, but our girls don't go to the OB office, and that's not usually where they're going. And and here's the other thing this is why technology, Monica said it, I say this all the time. I and I own my age. I'm a grandmother, uh, I am uh above 60. We'll just say that. Um, but but it astounds me. The this generation, the the the women that we're dealing with are going to primarily go to their device. They are not going to call, physically called, rarely. They're gonna do all the research on their own. We know that, we know that, we know that. And so I actually talked to one of our moms who had surrendered. She talked to no one, not us, not our hotline, until after the surrender had taken place. And she signed up to have a counseling session. And I was very, yeah, I don't know who's gonna be on the other end of this. And I, you know, we don't know anything but that the baby was safely surrendered and baby was doing well. We knew only what we knew from the hospital. So the first thing I asked is for her just to tell me her story because I realized this was probably the first time she'd ever spoken of what had happened. And sure enough, she was uh a high school student who had um hid her pregnancy from everyone. She birthed her child on a Sunday evening in the middle of the night, and then placed that baby in a safe haven baby box on on her way to school on Monday morning. And I sat and listened to her story, and because I had a little information on babies, um, baby was so perfectly healthy, everything was beautiful, uh, and I also knew that the umbilical cord had been tied up. And so I'm like looking at this high school student, going, How how did you deliver your own child? How did you know what to do? And you know what, Jacob, she said, I YouTube it. And I went, is this not the quintessential reality with this generation? Is they are going to, and now it's AI. I I I guess going to YouTube is probably old now uh from when that happened. They are going to find out all the information that they can find there and make decisions there a lot of times before they'll talk to anyone else. And so this is why it's so important that we have spent the money, that we've created the websites that that we've on TikTok and on social media that that these young women are able to find what they need in that crisis and be able to make a plan uh that will not only keep their baby safe, but will keep that safe from prosecution as well.

SPEAKER_06 48:17

You know, interesting enough, uh, this mother that you're talking about. So a lot of these moms will message us and say, hey, I want to talk to the lady on the news or I want to talk to Monica. And because I I I have so much empathy for them and I just have so much love, and I just I I share it with them when we have a surrender that you know that we're praying for them, we love them. And, you know, this mom that Pam is talking about, um, she contacts me on the birthday of her child every single year. And um, and this baby's, I don't know, four or five now, maybe six. And um, and we we just said just once a year, you know, we talked at the beginning, we talked more often, but now she's pretty, you know, she's at peace with her decision. But for us to still have a relationship and and us just message back and forth once a year, you know, like uh last year I was first. I messaged her because I put it in my calendar, you know, it's such and such birthday. And so I send her a message real quick before she sends it to me. But they appreciate that. They appreciate the love that we have for them and and and the little things that we do because we appreciate them keeping their child safe, um, just just speaks volumes, I think. I I just I'm just so proud of what we've done.

SPEAKER_05 49:30

Wow. I I've got a question. So with the with the boxes going into firehouses and hospitals, um, have there been any pregnancy medical clinics that have considered putting a box in?

SPEAKER_06 49:44

Um there one state was thinking about it. Um, I don't remember what state it was. Um, but I mean any state can pass the law. I mean, we have a state that says funeral, it was a funeral nursing homes can have baby boxes, and we're like, we're not putting baby boxes in nursing homes. I'm we're just not gonna do that. Um, but a state can change the law, whatever they want. But our program is we we go on evidence and data, and the data's just not going to allow us to curve outside of that if we're looking at the safety of the infant and the safety of the mom.

SPEAKER_05 50:15

Okay, so it's based on the law more so than just someone wanting to do it based on the law.

SPEAKER_07 50:21

Correct. So so Jacob, there's a difference between a safe haven location where a mother could walk in face to face, because those will vary. There are places where churches are or even pregnancy centers are an option. Social uh uh DCS child services is an option, police stations are an option, but but what what with a face-to-face surrender, you just have to understand this mom's in crisis and the police station is the last place she wants to go. Um and I think with our pregnancy centers, even though I know we're medical, we we also don't include medical doctor's offices. Why? Because someone's not there 24-7, right? So in a hospital and a fire station, um, there there will always be someone there. Now in the fire station, the the trick is it could be a situation where all of the firefighters are out on a call because when the call comes, they all dough. No one sits around to babysit the building. But the reality is that box calls 911, and it is the paramedics and the firefighters that are are then immediately uh the protocol is they need to be there within five minutes. And and so we have the ambulance and the paramedics there uh quickly. So for this situation, it you know, it it really doesn't make sense to not utilize uh either an EMS station, a fire station, or a hospital so that we have those paramedics on the other end of the box.

SPEAKER_06 51:45

And we we will never sacrifice integrity for growth, you know, uh uh for for safety for growth. Um that's always been our number one thing is the safety of the infant. Um so yeah, it it it that's just part of our program. If somebody else wants to put a box in a nursing home, they're free to do it in this, you know, in this I don't know what state it is, but in some state they can. But we're not doing it. No.

SPEAKER_07 52:09

But hey Jacob, you know what are the cool things, it's at least three of our um that I'm aware of, there may be more, of our pregnancy centers are are directly across the street from the fire station. I mean, like literally like right there. So it's it's kind of fun. Every time I drive around towns, no, Monica probably does it too. I do it all the time when I'm traveling, and I'm like, and that fire station right there, perfect. I need to just walk in and talk to that spectrum team. We need a box right there.

SPEAKER_06 52:37

You know, every you know, every time I go to Starbucks in Albuquerque when I get off the airplane, I'm driving down this one road and there's this really beautiful fire station, and I'm like, dang it, we need to get one in there. This would be a perfect spot for Starbucks across the street, people sitting for their coffee, they could see a box, education 24 hours a day.

SPEAKER_05 52:56

Yeah, and it sounds like based on the average length of the babies in the box being two minutes, I think you said on average, and then sometimes upwards of five, it sounds like someone's on site almost every single time.

SPEAKER_06 53:10

Well, the technology today, you know, they're the smartphones, um, the box alerts smartphones now. Um, there's an app on there that that when the baby box alarm goes off, their phones go off. There's some of them have uh cameras on the inside of the box on the baby only, not mom or anything like that. Um, and it's an automatic setup feed. Uh, so it's a live feed on the infant uh within a couple of seconds. So they have eyes on this baby. So if they're out on a fire, and I I think this is what one of the things that Christ just beautifully crafted for me is the knowledge of the fire service with me being a firefighter and a medic for me to be able to look at this and say, this is how it's gonna have to work. Um but if they're out on a fire and there's an emergency back at the fire station, we always flip our lights on and we go lights and sirens all the way back because something's happening, we don't know. Well, all they have to do now is if their baby box alarm goes off and they've got a camera in their baby box, they can look. If there's no baby in there, if somebody just opened the door and shut it, was just being curious. They don't have to go lights and sirens. They still have to go back and check and make sure the dot the box is back to the way it's supposed to be, but they don't have to risk their lives to get back to the fire station if there's no baby in the box. Now, if there is a baby in the box, then they better be hightailing their tail back to the fire station. We actually had a uh his name is Samuel. He's on a lot of our videos, uh, but he was placed in the baby box when um they were actually out on a fire. And so the battalion chief sent, or the the uh uh uh the on uh on-scene chief sent the battalion chief back to the fire station in his um his his vehicle. He sat there with the infant until medics arrived and then he went back to the fire. And that baby was picked up in four minutes and 20 seconds. And so you can see how fast this just moves. When you're talking about a newborn infant, we just uh even medics will tell you it it's like we don't mess around. And uh and so little Samuel is he's he's one of our babies that his parents have included us in their lives, and we get cards from him. He shows up at our baby box office and we get to love on him, and just a just a beautiful story.

SPEAKER_05 55:19

Wow. So um thinking about all these different puzzle pieces that you're representing with these stories and pieces, I'm wondering how does the church puzzle pieces and the safe haven box puzzle pieces, how do they fit together? And then also how do the pranksy clinic puzzle pieces fit with this? Like, and I know you've talked about some parts, but and originally you wanted, you know, the boxes, maybe to even be at a church, and then we've and then discovered that that was uh maybe you know it didn't work out to be a good idea. But how does the church come alongside and connect? And then also how can the pranksy clinic come alongside and connect?

SPEAKER_07 55:58

We we saw both of those things in all their glory last Friday when we opened the first baby box in the state of Georgia. So let me just tell you, Georgia spent about three years trying to pass uh amend their St. Haven law to allow for baby boxes, and it was beautiful. We had a a woman who was just Amy Anderson, she just like she said, if it kills me, this is gonna happen in Georgia. Her church backed her up, uh, encouraged her, prayed for her, and actually her church donated, I I believe the the vast majority of the money for that first box in her county that went in uh last week. And then, and then I got my friends from the pregnancy help world and from the right Georgia right to life, and and uh a lot of pro-life activists in Georgia involved. And and really, if it wasn't for them and for a couple of pastors who th this one pastor I spoke to last week in Georgia, he it was so amazing. He said he called those that it was about to not happen. It was like midnight one night the um summer or earlier last year, yeah. And and they were gonna it was gonna just die on the hill. It had a midnight deadline. And this pastor direct dialed the legislators, and and uh basically he got the we they as they said, he got the ball over the the end zone in the over the touchdown line really battle because we're finding them up. Um anyway, it was like it it was amazing. And so when we blessed this box and opened it, Monica and I were both there. Amy was there, the pastors were there, their church family was there, the four pregnancy centers from across Georgia were there, uh, Georgia Right to Life was there. I mean, it was just a celebration of what they had done. And and we know, I mean, I I was talking to the pregnancy center from Savannah that was there, pregnancy center from Augusta, Georgia that was there, and some of the pro-life friends there. We know that they're gonna be the ones who are going to make sure that that this is available in their community. And uh it was it was such a testimony to faith. I mean, we had the high the we had legislators, we had the city council or the county commissioners, we had the sheriff's office, the firefighters, and two pastors gave yeah, two pastors gave sermons and prayers better than most of my pastors. No, I shouldn't say it, my pastors lovely, but do you know what I mean? It was like amazing. I'm looking around and I'm seeing all the the the representative of faith and seeing Jesus' name honored and saying, you know what, we do, we love others because Jesus has called us to do that. This is what we're required to do. And it was a miraculous testimony of faith. So if you're watching this, if you can imagine what a beautiful testimony to your faith it would be to see your faith community, your pro-wife community, your pregnancy center community, and then your fire uh and and and sheriff and first responders, city councils, commissioners all coming together to say we care about the the the most vulnerable in our community, and we want to make sure that they're safe. It it it was beautiful.

SPEAKER_06 59:25

Well, and you know, when you have a fire chief or or even a firefighter that has pulled a dead infant from a dumpster or from alongside a highway, they've been in that situation. They don't want to go back there. And so they're they're looking for an option to where they can save the life of a child also. And so this box is literally just another tool in their toolbox, another avenue where they can help a mother in crisis if the mother doesn't want them to see her. And so for those firefighters in Georgia, they understood the call because they've already had one. And so now uh they have a resource so that uh hopefully that never happens again.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:03

Wow, that's so good. It it it seems like you're you're serving women who may represent like the whim the woman who is broke or the woman who is experiencing severe crisis, the woman who is you know who is um just very much overwhelmed with something going on to the point where she's desperate. And and I feel like there's a there's a common ground with pregnancy clinics serving that audience and the safe haven laws and the safe haven baby boxes is also serving. And it seems like it's the same audience, um, but maybe at different degrees. Um different, you know, different um but it's it's it's serving that audience of someone who's pregnant and just simply very desperate or overwhelmed with things going on. And um Yeah, I feel like there's a common ground when it comes to the the audience being served.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:57

Yeah, it's caring about women it it in crisis. Like we said, a lot of our girls with the state payment situation uh have you'll hear a lot of them say they didn't know they were pregnant. That if you don't work at a pregnancy center, that might be hard for you to understand. But there there is a level of I don't want to know, so I'm gonna ignore this and and maybe it will go away until nine months later it's not going away. Um and and so um there's just a level of saying we want to be there for her. And and one of the things Monica, we always said is no shame, no blame, and no names. This is the thing, this we are we're just saying keep your baby safe. How much better for her to know she did the right thing than to be that Kentucky cheerleader who uh suffocated her baby and stuffed her baby in a uh garbage bag in her closet? Uh that's the story we're trying to avoid here. And and and that's why, you know, everyone knowing that even in crisis, even when you feel overwhelmed, even if you claim and maybe you didn't know you were pregnant and the porta potty, uh suffocating, burying your baby, none of those are good options, not only for the baby, but not for you either. And so we we there is a way that you can keep your baby safe and go on with your life and not have to live with the overwhelming guilt of of doing something that would have harmed or even killed your child.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:27

Well, and we've brought these stories to you. We have brought many stories of uh we have we had a woman that utilized our baby box on my podcast called Beyond the Box with Monica Kelsey. I have had a woman who has murdered her child and went to prison uh and is now out of prison and was sitting across the table from me in my studio on Beyond the Box with Monica Kelsey. We've had fire chiefs on there that have pulled babies from boxes. Um, and so uh that is a great resource for people to kind of hear it from those who have lived it uh instead of just hearing me and Pam sit here and talk about it. So uh it's called Beyond the Box with Monica Kelsey. Um you can go to our website or our YouTube channel or Spotify or Apple or whatever.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:09

Awesome. Well, Monica, I've got one last question before I ask you to close this out in prayer, and that is what is safe haven boxes, what what is your current greatest need as an organization?

SPEAKER_06 1:03:21

Oh gosh, our greatest need is uh is always financial need because we can't do what we do if we don't have money. And marketing is one of the biggest expenses that we have because we have to get the information to people. And when I say market, it's really education. We have to get the education to the communities. Right now, we just put a billboard campaign in Indianapolis, Indiana, where we had uh three abandoned babies in a 12-month period. We put $50,000 of our rainy day fund money into this community so that this doesn't happen again. And so we need to be able to have money that we can pull from and put here and put there when these crises come up. Um, because the crisis is in Indiana, this was within a 30-day period, two of those babies were abandoned uh within a mile of each other. And so that was a five alarm fire for us. So that literally is the probably probably the biggest need is to be able to have funds when we need to deploy it to, you know, Albuquerque or Dallas, Texas, or wherever we got to do a huge push. Because when the when the media runs with the stories of these babies being found dead, we have to piggyback off that with the education. Um, that is the problem. Here's your solution. Uh, and so we work really hard at doing that.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:38

Well, would you yeah, would you pray for for finances and awareness and the marketing um and everything that God knows that we don't know? Um and we'll ask those who are listening to pray along with you.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:52

Pam, do you want to help me out here? Pam's a better she is so much better at praying. I always feel free to pop more pray.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:01

Yeah, I I I'll I'll pray for us. Father, thank you so much for this opportunity to share the ministry that you've called Monica to. We are grateful for her life. We're grateful for the way that you rescued her and that you've used her and the blessings that you have placed on not only Monica, but on Safe Haven Baby Boxes. And and Lord, we pray that you would continue to meet the needs. We pray for every pregnancy center out there that is daily reaching uh women who are are scared and and frightened and and just need someone to love them and walk alongside them. We pray for every woman that will be calling our hotline. Uh, and we pray for uh the amazing women that you have called to answer that line as well. And we we pray that you would give them wisdom and and courage as as they walk alongside these mothers. And and Lord, we just pray right now that that uh that any mother right who's in crisis right now and not doesn't know where to turn, that that she would find us, that she would find that that hotline, that she would reach out, either text or call, and that she would get the help that she needs to to keep her baby safe and keep her safe as well. And and and God, we're just so grateful for all that you have done. Uh, we know you will continue to do the good work that you've placed uh on our uh that you've commanded us to do, and that you will be faithful to complete that work in our lives, and we're grateful for you. Uh, and we're grateful for Jacob too, and and and his heart to get the the the word out about what's going on across our country uh to save the lives of both the unborn and uh and uh babies as well. And so we're just grateful and and we give you all the praise in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:00

Go on to the mountain mercy to the crimson perpetual time. Kneel down on the shore, be thirsty no more, go under and be pure. Oh Christ to the Holy Moses. Sinners sorry and wrecked by the foes. Place your heart and your soul in the fountain that flow for you and for me and for all. And the wonderful, tragic mysterious tree, on that beautiful, scandalous night, you and me were untoned by its blood and forever was right. On that beautiful, scandalous night. And your spirit restore by the river that pours from less side. You had me over its blood and forever watch white. That beautiful scandalous time up to the mountain of mercy to the crimson perpetual time. Kneel down on the shore, be thirsty no more. Go under and be purified. Please your heart and your soul in the mountain bathroom for you and for me and for all. I'm a beautiful scandalist I've got and put out. I'm a beautiful scandalous time. I'm that beautiful, scandalous night. You have me over a software wash one.